Villar Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

You forgot the gift baskets after the dates with Captain O-ver-rated.

The Marlins' President of Baseball Operations (on paper) is Michael Hill, a Harvard grad.   

I believe it's Hahhhhvvvahhhhhd, Soprano.

Maybe this is a case of a Yalie trying to pull a fast one on a Harvard grad.

 

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Craig Edwards at Fangraphs' take on the Villar trade:  

While Villar and Pillar certainly have flaws, they would have made the Orioles and Giants better in 2020 had their teams held on to them. Although their expected salaries were in the eight-figure range, that’s not an unreasonable cost, even for the Marlins on Villar and likely some other team with Pillar. The Giants and Orioles just made themselves worse in order to pocket $10 million. Having the two players might not change their spot in the standings at year’s end, but those two players aren’t blocking anyone, and they might have netted prospects at the trade deadline.

Tanking isn’t about draft position, it’s about saving money. Tanking or rebuilding or whatever you might call it isn’t necessarily the root of baseball’s issues, but non-competitive baseball is a big problem, and two teams just made themselves worse solely to save some money.

But it's ok for the Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox to outspend the other teams in baseball by 100+ million?  I guess the O's are supposed to know their role and put up the good fight against the Yanks and Sawx.  We're supposed to be the Washington Generals and not think outside the box.  

[scOtt]

13 minutes ago, scOtt said:

Villar will have negotiating power if they're already advertising him. I think...

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, scOtt said:

Wouldn't their site look much better with Yelich, Ozuna, and Realmuto on it?  Villar's 2020 salary is probably more than those 3 made the year the Marlins traded them.  Such a "smart" franchise.  

[Luke-OH]

1 hour ago, LookinUp said:

This is a 1 year estimate, right? Does it increase to $15-20 million over multiple years?

No, the first year estimate is 10M and then 2M the following year due to aging drop off and increased arb salary. Then he’d get non-tendered his final year based on available projections, age, and arb estimate. 

He obviously could be worth much more than that if he maintains performance or improves, but like I said a conservative estimate.

[scOtt]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Wouldn't their site look much better with Yelich, Ozuna, and Realmuto on it?  Villar's 2020 salary is probably more than those 3 made the year the Marlins traded them.  Such a "smart" franchise.  

The only "smart" member ever of the Marlins was Loria. He made out like a bandit! But  that was only for his own means and ends. Building and then destroying that franchise. Then built it again from the ashes and won another championship. Then TORE IT ALL DOWN AGAIN. Is he the first to do that? The idea of tanking for a few years to build up a winning team? Can't be the first time in MLB history. And apparently won't be the last.

[Moose Milligan]

22 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Craig Edwards at Fangraphs' take on the Villar trade:  

Tanking isn’t about draft position, it’s about saving money. Tanking or rebuilding or whatever you might call it isn’t necessarily the root of baseball’s issues, but non-competitive baseball is a big problem, and two teams just made themselves worse solely to save some money.

Yeah, but they really didn't.

Billy Beane said it best, I can't find the quote.  But it's something along the lines of "If you're not competing, you're rebuilding." I can't do the quote justice but the essence of it was that if you're not gunning for a playoff spot, you're figuring out a way to get there.  And anything in between is a waste.  

Non competitive baseball isn't a problem.  The Orioles weren't competitive in 2018, not by a long shot...but there was this illusion that since they had some recognizable names, since they had a little bit of starpower and a respectable manager that they COULD be.  But it didn't work out and they were a disaster.  And they weren't competitive last year after selling off whatever starpower they had in 2018.

The idea that teams try to sell their fans of "Hey, we've got some good talent!  We can COMPETE this year!" is a problem.  The idea that the Orioles were acting like the 2018 team (before the season) was a playoff contender when anyone with half a brain knew that it was a .500 team at best was insulting.  That's false advertising.  I think we'd feel like we got slapped in the face if Elias said the 2020 Orioles are going to be aiming for a playoff berth.  

Instead we act insulted and clutch our pearls when we know that the 2020 Orioles aren't going to be competitive anyway.  And act like it's a travesty that one player that's fun to watch got traded when in reality he might have been the difference between winning 62 and 65 games next year.  

Saving 10 million is fine if that money is allocated elsewhere...or even if it's just socked away for a rainy day.  And the offseason is just getting started, maybe Elias has his eyes set on some other moves.  Who knows.

But to act like a non competitive team just made an affront to the game of baseball because they traded one of their few good players and will most likely trot out a no-namer in his place for the upcoming season...is the height of pearl clutching.

In a way, I don't envy Elias' position.  The diehard fans understand what's up, they know that this rebuild process is going to take awhile.  But it's the people that still think Adam Jones is a good ballplayer and don't understand why he wasn't brought back that are up in arms and don't know what's going on and are the most vocal about it, which is annoying.

[Philip]

Frobby and I have disagreed about this, but I think it’s all about what a team is willing to pay. Every team wants to avoid overspending, and the feeling is that our Johnathan in there Kevin weren’t worth the money they were going to get.  It is unreasonable to think that they didn’t attempt to trade them, ergo they must not of had any trade value. The simple fact is that a 4WAR player is not worth $10 million. Now he might be worth $10 million to a contending team, but that contending team probably has already acquired a player of the same quality or greater and doesn’t need to spend the $10 million. 

I think the article is incorrect. It’s not about saving money, it is about not wasting money, which is a different attitude, even if the resulting activity looks the same.

 

[scOtt]

"Clutching pearls." What a great phrase! Cheers Moose!

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, scOtt said:

"Clutching pearls." What a great phrase! Cheers Moose!

Unfortunately, there's a lot of pearl clutching in the world today.  

[scOtt]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Unfortunately, there's a lot of pearl clutching in the world today.  

I buy silver. Can't afford gold.

[scOtt]

3 minutes ago, scOtt said:

I buy silver. Can't afford gold.

[weams]

17 minutes ago, scOtt said:

The only "smart" member ever of the Marlins was Loria. He made out like a bandit! But  that was only for his own means and ends. Building and then destroying that franchise. Then built it again from the ashes and won another championship. Then TORE IT ALL DOWN AGAIN. Is he the first to do that? The idea of tanking for a few years to build up a winning team? Can't be the first time in MLB history. And apparently won't be the last.

The first World Series winning team there was gone seven days after they won. 

[weams]

16 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, but they really didn't.

Billy Beane said it best, I can't find the quote.  But it's something along the lines of "If you're not competing, you're rebuilding." I can't do the quote justice but the essence of it was that if you're not gunning for a playoff spot, you're figuring out a way to get there.  And anything in between is a waste.  

Non competitive baseball isn't a problem.  The Orioles weren't competitive in 2018, not by a long shot...but there was this illusion that since they had some recognizable names, since they had a little bit of starpower and a respectable manager that they COULD be.  But it didn't work out and they were a disaster.  And they weren't competitive last year after selling off whatever starpower they had in 2018.

The idea that teams try to sell their fans of "Hey, we've got some good talent!  We can COMPETE this year!" is a problem.  The idea that the Orioles were acting like the 2018 team (before the season) was a playoff contender when anyone with half a brain knew that it was a .500 team at best was insulting.  That's false advertising.  I think we'd feel like we got slapped in the face if Elias said the 2020 Orioles are going to be aiming for a playoff berth.  

Instead we act insulted and clutch our pearls when we know that the 2020 Orioles aren't going to be competitive anyway.  And act like it's a travesty that one player that's fun to watch got traded when in reality he might have been the difference between winning 62 and 65 games next year.  

Saving 10 million is fine if that money is allocated elsewhere...or even if it's just socked away for a rainy day.  And the offseason is just getting started, maybe Elias has his eyes set on some other moves.  Who knows.

But to act like a non competitive team just made an affront to the game of baseball because they traded one of their few good players and will most likely trot out a no-namer in his place for the upcoming season...is the height of pearl clutching.

In a way, I don't envy Elias' position.  The diehard fans understand what's up, they know that this rebuild process is going to take awhile.  But it's the people that still think Adam Jones is a good ballplayer and don't understand why he wasn't brought back that are up in arms and don't know what's going on and are the most vocal about it, which is annoying.

I miss Adam Jones. 

[NCRaven]

Steve Adams, MLBTrade Rumors chat ongoing:

https://www.jotcast.com/chat/chat-with-mlbtrs-steve-adams-12-3-19-6526.html

Good on the Marlins for actually picking up a player who'll make them better in 2020, by the way. The Orioles should take way more crap than they did for making such a blatant cost-cutting move that was plainly designed to lose more games in 2020. I'd be pretty pissed off if I were an O's fan.