Middle Infield, Addison Russell and the Redemption Song

[SteveA]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I have sympathy for someone who agreed to a plea deal as a minor with the understanding that the matter would stay sealed whose whole future was destroyed when that turned out to not be the case.

As I've stated in the past I don't see anyone suggesting the Lena Dunham can't have a career.

Or are you suggesting that violence by women isn't THAT big a deal?

I don't even know what Lena Dunham has been accused of doing, I have never paid any attention to her or read any articles about her.  All I know is she had a popular show on HBO that I never watched.   I'm not sure I would recognize her if I saw her.   So for you to say I am somehow suggesting that violence by women isn't that big a deal by bringing up someone I basically know nothing about and never mentioned, is utterly absurd and some sort of bizarre stretch of argument that makes no sense whatsoever.   I didn't mention Josef Mengele in my post either, so maybe by not mentioning him I am "suggesting" that vicious cruelty in the guise of medical experimentation is not that big a deal either?   I didn't mention Julius Rosenberg, so maybe I am somehow implying that stealing atomic secrets and giving them to the Russians isn't a big deal?   Talk about an utter non sequitor and taking what I say and making some completely unrelated point, geez.

My point is that SOME people, hopefully not many, but some, are likely to have a modicum of sympathy for someone accused of domestic violence against women, while a much, much, much smaller % of people are going to have similar sympathy for someone accused of sexual assault of a 6 or 8 year old.   I believe that is true, and I believe it affects the reaction that would occur if a team signed one guy versus the other.   That is the only point I was trying to make, and I still believe it and stand by what I wrote.  I think a team signing Russell would face some public backlash, but a team signing Heimlich would face much more.   I was replying to a post that made an equivalence of the two, and my point was that in the court of public opinion, right or wrong, they were not comparable.   One would likely be viewed as worse than the other.   That is the only point I was trying to make, and I stand by that opinion.

Yes, I am aware that his agreement was supposed to be sealed and that came out, and that has destroyed his future.   Someone should be punished for breaking that rule.  But I don't think it affects the public perception of the situation at all.   It probably should but public opinion is often based on emotion moreso than logic

[atomic]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

I don't even know what Lena Dunham has been accused of doing, I have never paid any attention to her or read any articles about her.  All I know is she had a popular show on HBO that I never watched.   I'm not sure I would recognize her if I saw her.   So for you to say I am somehow suggesting that violence by women isn't that big a deal by bringing up someone I basically know nothing about and never mentioned, is utterly absurd and some sort of bizarre stretch of argument that makes no sense whatsoever.   

He is just trolling. 

[PeteCanes]

.

[PeteCanes]

59 minutes ago, atomic said:

He is just trolling. 

quote of the year

[Satyr3206]

A ten foot pole is not long enough to stay away from this thread. Thirty, Forty???

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Satyr3206 said:

A ten foot pole is not long enough to stay away from this thread. Thirty, Forty???

The one thing this thread definitely points out is that Russell isn’t worth it. Teams that are contending have good PR going on from the winning. I don’t see many teams trying to trade for Russell at the deadline and jeopardize their good PR. It’s similar to Tebow and Kap, in that a team isn’t going to want to field questions all day about a light hitting SS. 

[weams]

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/12/theres-no-mystery-surrounding-orioles-biggest-roster-needs.html

[Legend_Of_Joey]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The one thing this thread definitely points out is that Russell isn’t worth it. Teams that are contending have good PR going on from the winning. I don’t see many teams trying to trade for Russell at the deadline and jeopardize their good PR. It’s similar to Tebow and Kap, in that a team isn’t going to want to field questions all day about a light hitting SS. 

Tebow is signed. He's still in the Mets minor league system.

[Enjoy Terror]

9 hours ago, SteveA said:

I don't even know what Lena Dunham has been accused of doing, I have never paid any attention to her or read any articles about her.

I’m pretty sure it’s the guy with the puppets.

[weams]

5 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I’m pretty sure it’s the guy with the puppets.

I sure would not know. Let's drop that issue in this thread. If it appears to be important to anyone take it to the rant section or something. 

[Aristotelian]

21 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

 

Seriously, could we get him on a minor league deal? Not only to save money but to give us time to evaluate his behavior?

[Philip]

21 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Michael Vick is a better comparison.

Don’t get me started. Grrr

[esmd]

IMO, I think the Orioles should pass, for several reasons:

1) Russell's on-field performance is certainly questionable at this point.

2) Elias having come from Houston, and the controversy with Osuna there, would just be a bad optic.  I expect some in the media might connect dots in the effort to poop out a story.

3) This is Baltimore.  Ray Rice is still fresh in everyone's memory.  The Orioles bringing in Russell would re-kindle some of that, and it would become a story and a possible distraction that the O's don't need.

[sgillespie31]

   I am a longtime lurker, massive O's fan in Canada. Never been to Baltimore but it is a dream of mine to one day see my team play at home at Oriole Park.

I feel compelled to post in this thread and commend those we are standing up to say that generic, media spun after the fact statements of remorse are not good enough reasons to advocate for a player to join the Orioles. I am in no way saying those statements might not be genuine, but they just aren't good enough anymore.

 I am a managing professional at a transition and recovery house for people attempting to change thier lives for the better, typically to overcome their own anger, acts of violence, depression, and various forms of addiction. My word is not all, but based on my professional education, professional experience, and my own personal experience (all directly in this field), I can say that it takes a very long time for people to truly move forward and better themselves. They have to really, really want it. And we have worked with athletes at very high levels, most of whom have become wonderful men, but most of whome sadly had to leave the pro sport environment behind in order to fully move forward.

   Everyone that I have seen overcome these types of behaviours has asked for help but also taken it upon themselves to undertake the long, arduous process of recovery. They have done so before being caught, because a part of them recognized that in order to truly take responsibility they needed to own their actions and seek longterm change. Rather than try to save their careers in the short term, they often come to the hard realization that they need to make recovery their number one priority and full time jobs for as long as it takes to create new habits, typically 1 - 8 or so years. Those that tend to be succesful sacrifice their own careers,  relationships, and material gains for as long as it takes to change their habits and rebuild their own psychology, and years later they are so grateful and proud that they put that amount of work in, and they start the wonderful process of getting these things back in healthier and more rewarding ways than they ever had before. But they never forget. They don't take prompting to discuss their past mistakes, instead they are open about them to hold themselves accountable and create positive change around them, because their number one fear in life is resorting to those old behaviours. It isn't losing money, fame, or anything else.

 

The ones who don't make it in recovery are not liars and cheaters in their hearts, but they do lie and cheat in order to cling to their personal goals, and to avoid the sting of shame. It is understandable, but ineffective. Vague statements of an athlete's manager do not come even close to confirming that an athlete has undergone the kind of journey it takes to really commit to recovery.

   Would I spit on Addison Russell or yell at him if I passed him on the street? No. Do I think he should a Baltimore Oriole? No. Do I have my doubts that he has truly made redemption and recovery his primary goal? Yes, I do, because there is little tangible evidence to suggest otherwise. Statements, the odd mandatory press conference, and media articles just are not the same. Not even close. This isn't to suggest he is a villain or does not feel remorse, but based on all of my experience people that really make it in recovery break the mold against all odds. There is nothing to suggest Russell has done this. It is bigger than sports, and I personally don't think it is hypocritical to say you don't want him on your favorite sports team at this time. I really hope he can undergo the journey I have seen men make, and that he can experience the relief and joy at the end of that dark tunnel.

  Most opinions on the matter are valid. It is a sensitive issue, and I just want to chime in since this is an area of expertise for me. I also want to commend most posters here for remaining calm and respectful despite differeing views, and to especially commend those willing to stand up and say that the longtime culture in sports of abuse, getting caught, then making a sorrowful media statement or two and attending some mandated short term counselling just isn't good enough anymore. Positive change is often uncomfortable, but we can move forward.

[Frobby]

I won’t quote your post, @sgillespie31, but thanks for your insights.    I am now convinced we should pass on Russell even if he made sense from a purely baseball standpoint (which I’m not sure did anyway).     

But if you live in Canada, and have never been to Baltimore, how in the world did you become an Orioles fan?   Curious minds want to know!