Buck interviewing for Astros job

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Crane has a team that is talented enough to go back to the playoffs and possibly win the World Series.   He needs a manager that can establish stability and push the right buttons at the right time.   Someone that has successfully managed star players.   Of the guys on the published Astros list Bochy is the only manager that is better than Buck.  An Bochy reportedly does not want the job.

One thing we know about Buck.   He can schmooze an owner.

Plus his folksy persona would play very well in Houston.   

[Tony-OH]

29 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Crane has a team that is talented enough to go back to the playoffs and possibly win the World Series.   He needs a manager that can establish stability and push the right buttons at the right time.   Someone that has successfully managed star players.   Of the guys on the published Astros list Bochy is the only manager that is better than Buck.  And Bochy reportedly does not want the job.

One thing we know about Buck.   He can schmooze an owner.

You never know. I'm not saying Buck is a not a good manager for a playoff ready team that needs stability, just that it would be a major transition from where they were going as an organization. Young managers and analytics are all the rage. Not exactly Buck's strengths. Who knows, maybe he's trying to convince him to let him be GM since that's what he wanted to act as here as well.

[mdbdotcom]

I'm guessing they want an experienced manager who can handle the press and the fans in 2020. That may be more important than having someone who is young and innovative. I wonder if Buck would take a one-year deal.

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

You never know. I'm not saying Buck is a not a good manager for a playoff ready team that needs stability, just that it would be a major transition from where they were going as an organization. Young managers and analytics are all the rage. Not exactly Buck's strengths. Who knows, maybe he's trying to convince him to let him be GM since that's what he wanted to act as here as well.

I don't know how much of the course that had been charted was Crane's.   Luhnow has been a leader in  analytics and he is gone.    Crane may very well just want a manager that can solve the problem right in front of the Astros.   Which is how does he win this season.

[bobmc]

On 1/17/2020 at 4:33 PM, mdbdotcom said:

I'm guessing they want an experienced manager who can handle the press and the fans in 2020. That may be more important than having someone who is young and innovative. I wonder if Buck would take a one-year deal.

Buck knows baseball and he listens to suggestions as shown here.  

 

[foxfield]

On 1/17/2020 at 12:52 PM, LookinUp said:

You have to wonder how close-minded Buck is. Seems to me that virtually nobody is as closed-minded as he's being portrayed.

Well he isn't so close minded as to deny a team that cheated and precipitated his fall from having a chance to hire him.  Or did getting destroyed in 16 and 17 by the Astros go unnoticed?

[wildbillhiccup]

Can anyone actually envision Buck co-existing with someone like Alex Bregman? I sure can't. 

[LookinUp]

On 1/17/2020 at 4:18 PM, Tony-OH said:

You never know. I'm not saying Buck is a not a good manager for a playoff ready team that needs stability, just that it would be a major transition from where they were going as an organization. Young managers and analytics are all the rage. Not exactly Buck's strengths. Who knows, maybe he's trying to convince him to let him be GM since that's what he wanted to act as here as well.

I listened to a podcast with Jack Leggett the other day. He's the former manager for Clemson and now a USA Baseball guy. He seems like a wonderful person. His philosophies are very compelling. About moving runners over, getting the extra bases, situational hitting, bunting, running. All wonderful stuff that is now passe.

I felt bad for the guy. He clearly wants to get back into running a program, and he's had a ton of success, but he's not interested in hitters that K a lot, and is only mildly interested in launch angles. It seemed to me that he might not know what he doesn't know. His methods have tremendous value and have achieved tremendous success, but they're not inclusive of how to differentiate value from a statistical perspective, which means that he's probably teaching some guys to hit to the right side to move the runner over instead of letting him hit for power. Well, it seems like he's no longer wanted as a program manager. It's really a sea change from where the game was a decade ago. I felt bad for the guy. I wonder how similar he is to Buck.

[HowAboutThat]

Regardless what he did privately, buck seemed to be openly antagonistic towards any kind of advanced stats except time to the plate.

 He was surprisingly acquiescent to player demands. 

And in his penultimate year he had I think five guys on the roster who were at best first baseman/DH players.

I’m curious about the logic of constantly recycling managers. Why not find somebody new? Just because they don’t have a managing experience doesn’t mean they don’t have what The job requires. Heck I’d be willing to send them Luke.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Philip

[UpstateNYfan]

45 minutes ago, Philip said:

Regardless what he did privately, buck seemed to be openly antagonistic towards any kind of advanced stats except time to the plate.

 He was surprisingly acquiescent to player demands. 

And in his penultimate year he had I think five guys on the roster who were at best first baseman/DH players.

I’m curious about the logic of constantly recycling managers. Why not find somebody new? Just because they don’t have a managing experience doesn’t mean they don’t have what The job requires. Heck I’d be willing to send them Luke.

The most apparent problem with "new" is gaining the respect of veteran players IMO, especially those with little or no MLB playing experience. I am sure there are a number of qualified people out there, that will never get a chance. Even Palmer said about Weaver, "The only thing Earl knows about a curve ball is that he couldn't hit one." Tough for an "unknown" to get noticed and then respected.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Regardless what he did privately, buck seemed to be openly antagonistic towards any kind of advanced stats except time to the plate.

 He was surprisingly acquiescent to player demands. 

And in his penultimate year he had I think five guys on the roster who were at best first baseman/DH players.

I’m curious about the logic of constantly recycling managers. Why not find somebody new? Just because they don’t have a managing experience doesn’t mean they don’t have what The job requires. Heck I’d be willing to send them Luke.

I think Luke would be the first to tell you he's not qualified.  And that's not a slam on Luke, but he just got his first semi-part time job with a major league team.  He's got a long, long way to go before being qualified for a position like that.  Luke comes across as a very knowledgeable, yet level headed and reasonable guy.  There's no arrogance there.

The narrative here about Buck being anti advanced stats is a bit myopic.  It implies (or really says) that he's crusty and that an old dog can't learn new tricks.  

Maybe that's true, maybe it's not.  I don't think anyone lasts that long in any industry without evolving and learning new things, especially in a time where technology is moving forward at lightning speeds.  Like Luke would tell you that he's not qualified, the game has changed from the time Buck started managing and he'd tell you that, too.  

I'm not sure how many of you care about the NFL but the Packers let coach Mike McCarthy go and one of the reasons why is that he was old school and didn't embrace analytics, forward thinking stuff, etc.  But he got picked up by the Cowboys because he's embraced those things and knows he needs to learn them to succeed in the NFL these days.  Old dogs, can learn new tricks.  

Here's the deal and what many of you are overlooking:  The Astros, for all of their analytics know-how and industry defining views on advanced metrics wouldn't be bringing Buck in for a face to face interview if they hadn't had a conversation or two to scratch the surface to see if a potential fit is there.  And I would assume those conversations included thoughts/views on analytics, metrics, where the game is going, etc.  They need to see if they agree on basic principles before diving deeper.  

I'm not saying Buck is the horse for the course in Houston but you guys act like Buck is stuck in the stone age, permanently, when none of us really know if he's taken an opportunity to come around on advanced metrics.  

[Sir_Loin]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 4:18 PM, Tony-OH said:

You never know. I'm not saying Buck is a not a good manager for a playoff ready team that needs stability, just that it would be a major transition from where they were going as an organization. Young managers and analytics are all the rage. Not exactly Buck's strengths. Who knows, maybe he's trying to convince him to let him be GM since that's what he wanted to act as here as well.

Being that analytics are all the rage, I highly doubt they want him as their GM.

[HowAboutThat]

19 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

The narrative here about Buck being anti advanced stats is a bit myopic.  It implies (or really says) that he's crusty and that an old dog can't learn new tricks.  

Buck himself created the image of him as antagonistic to stats. I actually think his constant mention of “time to the plate” was kind of a sop to those who want him to use them.

Anyone CAN learn new things, but often they refuse to admit the need to do so. My mom’s attitude towards text messaging is a perfect and common example.

My comment about Luke was of course a joke, but the idea that new guys must earn Their laurels is of course true, but it shouldn’t be an impediment to hiring someone with no experience. Regarding the Astros interviewing him, I think they’re just doing their due diligence.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Buck himself created the image of him as antagonistic to stats. I actually think his constant mention of “time to the plate” was kind of a sop to those who want him to use them.

Anyone CAN learn new things, but often they refuse to admit the need to do so. My mom’s attitude towards text messaging is a perfect and common example.

My comment about Luke was of course a joke, but the idea that new guys must earn Their laurels is of course true, but it shouldn’t be an impediment to hiring someone with no experience. Regarding the Astros interviewing him, I think they’re just doing their due diligence.

Well, I'd hope that Buck would be more open minded than your mom.  

[HowAboutThat]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, I'd hope that Buck would be more open minded than your mom.  

He doesn’t appear to be so far. Remember, I didn’t create this image out of whole cloth, Buck did himself.

and the stats issue isn’t the only issue of concern.