Poll: Grading Elias' Tenure Thus Far

[ScGO's]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You are rating him A++.

I don't want to hear, "it's no rush" and "so goes it in the craft of dumpster diving".

Not when you are talking A++, or even A for that matter.  You sound like you are talking about someone pulling down a B.  You don't lose a 3 win guy for nothing and get an A++.

Class with 30 students, how many do you give an A++?

Are you saying that you think Elias has been the best GM in baseball since he's been hired?

I'm not saying he's getting that grade for his role as a GM; he's getting an A++ for his role in his role as the O's GM and all the circumstantial chaos he inherited.

[Satyr3206]

On 2/4/2020 at 7:56 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

So tell me what you expect Elias to do to fix the MASN situation.

I can only speak to what I would have done. I would have asked about the issue and gotten certain assurances it would be resolved. If not. I wouldn't have accepted the job.

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, Satyr3206 said:

I can only speak to what I would have done. I would have asked about the issue and gotten certain assurances it would be resolved. If not. I wouldn't have accepted the job.

Okay, so you would give a failing grade to anyone who accepted the position without firm assurances about a quick resolution of the MASN situation.  There is nothing Elias could be doing that changes that, his sin was taking the job in the first place.

[Satyr3206]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Okay, so you would give a failing grade to anyone who accepted the position without firm assurances about a quick resolution of the MASN situation.  There is nothing Elias could be doing that changes that, his sin was taking the job in the first place.

I didn't say anyone sinned or lied. If you are going to run a ML team take the bull by the horns. The Angelos family sure hasn't done a good job.

 

[Satyr3206]

I am actually thinking it would be better for MLB to force a sale at this point.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Satyr3206 said:

I didn't say anyone sinned or lied. If you are going to run a ML team take the bull by the horns. The Angelos family sure hasn't done a good job.

 

I won't argue for a minute that the Angelos' tenure has been good.  I just don't transfer the guilt to Elias for trying to work under them.

[Satyr3206]

Anyone working under them hasn't been good or worked.

[Satyr3206]

Like Snyder or Jerry Jones. Lots of money, no common sense.

[Can_of_corn]

On 2/5/2020 at 8:16 AM, Satyr3206 said:

I am actually thinking it would be better for MLB to force a sale at this point.

We have seen what it takes to force a sale.

[Three Run Homer]

I gave him a B.  He has the right strategy--the team needed to be stripped and rebuilt from the ground up.  But it's too soon to tell whether he is good at evaluating and developing amateur talent, which in the end will determine whether this rebuild is successful.  

I complained about the Villar trade vociferously, but I have to admit that if ever there is a year to tank, this might be it, with Kumar Rocker looming as the #1 pick in June 2021.

 

[foxfield]

Because it is so early...I think the easy thing to note is that the grade is somewhat a reflection of the grader. I believe on names of people added to the admin team alone, Elias deserves very high marks. And I believe that from this spring on, Davis defying suggestions becomes Elias’ problem. 

But this is what a rebuild, a total rebuild looks like. It’s messy at times and it’s hard to see or imagine the final product. Honest answer is it’s too soon to tell but the opening post covered that issue. I feel that I am pleased but I also feel that other than Davis, which is obviously a decision that ownership has a say in, I have seen what I expected. 

A C would be a grade that meets expectations. I cannot see any real way at this point of saying Elias hasn’t met expectations.  An A or an A+ would be majorly exceeding expectations. I can see plenty daylight where there is room, even at this early stage, to argue both sides of this. 
 

That leaves me at a solid B. And this is an interim grade. I think the first real opportunity to grade will be this time next year. And I think the full spectrum of passing grades are still on the table. I’m cautiously optimistic. 

[nadecir]

Given the Astros cheating, there are questions at this point of how much Elias' player analysis tactics are effective.  The scandal taints everything and everyone involved involved with the Astros, along with their player development personnel and tactics.

I know Elias has said this:  “But I have said, and I will say, that my role there was running the minor leagues, running the international scouting, running the draft,” Elias told Connolly. “And I was very focused on it. I’ll leave it at that.”  That's not an answer to the question of whether Elias knew about the Astros cheating while he was there.

I am sure a reporter will ask Elias if he ever knew of "codebreaker" or the "dark arts" while with the Astros.    It's pretty obvious that more Astros personnel knew about the cheating then have been named.

"The Houston Astros cheating scandal reportedly went well beyond banging on a trash can during home games and also was used on the road from 2017 through parts of the 2018 season. Details of Houston's "Codebreaker" program were revealed in a report by Jared Diamond of the Wall Street Journal on Friday that showed the extent of the team's cheating as well as the depths to which then-general manager Jeff Luhnow was involved.

Accord to Diamond, Luhnow was approached by a team intern in 2016 with a presentation on an Excel-based application that could decode signs from opposing catchers. The program, named Codebreaker, was routinely referred to as the "Dark Arts" among Astros employees, per a previously undisclosed letter MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred sent to the team.

Manfred had called the cheating scandal "player-driven" in his report on the scheme. However, Diamond's report casts doubts on that notion, demonstrating Luhnow and the Astros analytics team were in on the efforts."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2875319-astros-use-of-codebreaker-in-cheating-scandal-detailed-in-new-wsj-report

"Luhnow’s tenure in Houston was defined by an all-knowing front office where information was king, and the ability to place a value on every single aspect of the organization. The idea that he was unaware of such an elaborate scheme, if not intimately involved, is laughable, yet Luhnow’s official statement in response to his suspension and subsequent termination by the Astros was defiant, insisting “I am not a cheater” and “I did not know rules were being broken.”

Sure.

Baltimore Orioles general manager Mike Elias was assistant general manager under Luhnow in 2017. When he left for Baltimore in 2018, Elias brought Astros’ director of decision sciences Sig Mejdal with him. Understandably, Elias would like to distance himself as much as possible from the scandal.

“I am confident that group that’s here that came from Houston will not be connected to or implicated in the sign-stealing situation in Houston,” Elias told reporters at Orioles fan fest last weekend.

There’s reason for Elias to be confident that that connection will never be officially drawn. Major League Baseball has demonstrated they won’t pursue anything unless its feet are put to the fire. It took them two years to thoroughly investigate the Astros, and only then after a player (Mike Fiers) went on record to disclose the scheme. Manfred’s report went out of its way to avoid placing blame on the front office. Now we know that Houston’s front office was integrally involved, and it’s difficult to believe that MLB didn’t.

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2020/2/13/21131563/astros-cheating-hubris-jim-crane-rob-manfred-mlb

My question is this.  Would Angelos have even hired Elias if the extent of the Astros cheating scandal was publically known before Elias was hired?

[Can_of_corn]

I don't care if he did know.

I'm not going to hold him to some ridiculous standard that indicates he should have played whistle blower if he did know.

I would have kept my head down and kept doing my job if I had found out and I imagine most, if not all of you would have done the same.

That and worked on getting out of town before it came crashing down.

[nadecir]

Thank God that Mike Fiers doesn't believe in this attitude.  The Astros may have won more tainted World Series.

If the Orioles were doing or have done something like this, I would want someone in the organization to call them out publicly as soon as they knew.    Whether it be an intern or a player, a whistleblower is one that has enough integrity to say I do not want to be involved in an organization that cheats no matter what happens to me.  History shows time and time again that condoning cheating or other unethical behavior with silence can lead to some very bad consequences.

I do imagine that some Astros hitters will be keeping their heads down this season though. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, nadecir said:

Thank God that Mike Fiers doesn't believe in this attitude.  The Astros may have won more tainted World Series.

If the Orioles were doing or have done something like this, I would want someone in the organization to call them out publicly as soon as they knew.    Whether it be an intern or a player, a whistleblower is one that has enough integrity to say I do not want to be involved in an organization that cheats no matter what happens to me.  History shows time and time again that condoning cheating or other unethical behavior with silence can lead to some very bad consequences.

I do imagine that some Astros hitters will be keeping their heads down this season though. 

I'm sorry did Fiers say something when he was with the Astros that I missed?  From what I read I thought he kept his head down, did his job and collected his ring.

I'm pretty sure he waited until he was with a division rival before having a case of guilt.