Poll: Grading Elias' Tenure Thus Far

[Frobby]

I am going to assume that Elias wasn’t directly involved, but was aware of what was going on and didn’t do anything about it.    You could second guess his silence, but I agree with Corn that most would have done the same thing and I’m not holding it against Elias.    It’s now on him to ensure that nothing similar happens on his watch in Baltimore.    That’s his responsibility.

Putting aside any moral issue, there’s the practical issue of whether the use of cutting edge analytics and forward thinking methods actually helps in player selection, development and coaching, if the game is played honestly.      I think it does, and that it’s very important that the O’s have come out of the Stone Age and are looking to become a leader in this regard, not merely a club that meets industry standards.    But the proof will be in the pudding.    And I note, real pudding takes time for the ingredient to mix, to come to a boil, and to thicken.    And it tastes a lot better than instant pudding.   That’s why I’ll be patient in waiting for Elias’ work to come to fruition.   

 

[nadecir]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm sorry did Fiers say something when he was with the Astros that I missed?  From what I read I thought he kept his head down, did his job and collected his ring.

I'm pretty sure he waited until he was with a division rival before having a case of guilt.

At least Feirs had the guts to do it, even after leaving the Astros.  I bet he wishes he would have spoken up earlier.

Justin Verlander admits he should have spoken up earlier.

"“It’s been difficult,” Verlander said Thursday at The Ballpark of the Palm Beaches. “Showing up in 2017. And once I spent some time there, understood what was happening. I didn’t — I wish I had said more. Looking back, I can’t go back. I can’t reverse my decision. I wish I had said more, and I didn’t, and for that I’m sorry.”

So are you okay with the Orioles cheating like this? Or do you want someone in the organization to come clean and say something if the Orioles are undoubtedly cheating?  Everyone who knows about cheating and stays silent condones it. 

How would you feel if you were a fan of the 2017 Dodgers instead of the Orioles?  Other teams, players and fans paid a price for the Astros cheating.  Without a whistleblower, this cheating would have continued.

[Can_of_corn]

That is some hardcore goalpost moving. 

[nadecir]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That is some hardcore goalpost moving. 

Please answer my question.

So are you okay with the Orioles cheating like this? Or do you want someone in the organization to come clean and say something if the Orioles are undoubtedly cheating?  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, nadecir said:

Please answer my question.

So are you okay with the Orioles cheating like this? Or do you want someone in the organization to come clean and say something if the Orioles are undoubtedly cheating?  

I fully expect every team in every sport to at the very least push the borders when it comes to the legality of their actions.

To me cheating is cheating and what the Astros did is not worse than what the Red Sox did, what the Indians did or what the Phillies did.

Do you have an issue with Earl Weaver?

Quote

If you know how to cheat, start now.

 

[nadecir]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I fully expect every team in every sport to at the very least push the borders when it comes to the legality of their actions.

To me cheating is cheating and what the Astros did is not worse than what the Red Sox did, what the Indians did or what the Phillies did.

Do you have an issue with Earl Weaver?

 

So you would be ok with it if the Orioles did exactly what the Astros did?  I would not.  How about I get a yes or no on that question?

Let's not discuss generalities.  I certainly would have an issue with Earl Weaver if he was involved in exactly what the Astros did.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, nadecir said:

So you would be ok with it if the Orioles did exactly what the Astros did?  I would not.  How about I get a yes or no on that question?

Let's not discuss generalities.  I certainly would have an issue with Earl Weaver if he was involved in exactly what the Astros did.

Why are you so hung up on "exactly"?  Are you one of those folks that think a little bit of cheating is fine but too much is wrong?

Cheating is cheating.  If I have a problem with what the Astros did than I should have an issue with a pitcher using pine tar to increase his grip.  They are both cheating.

[nadecir]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why are you so hung up on "exactly"?  Are you one of those folks that think a little bit of cheating is fine but too much is wrong?

Cheating is cheating.  If I have a problem with what the Astros did than I should have an issue with a pitcher using pine tar to increase his grip.  They are both cheating.

So I take it that you would be good with it if the Orioles cheated exactly the way the Astros cheated?  I got it.  I will just disagree and leave it at that.
 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, nadecir said:

So I take it that you would be good with it if the Orioles cheated exactly the way the Astros cheated?  I got it.  I will just disagree and leave it at that.
 

Naw, I'd be upset they were stupid enough to allow so many folks to know what was going on.

Since you are busy demanding answers can you tell me why you are so worried about the EXACT way the Astros cheated?  Seriously, what is up with that?  Are you fine with some types of cheating?  What kind of slippery slope are your morals on?

[Satyr3206]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:13 PM, Can_of_corn said:

We have seen what it takes to force a sale.

Just a thought. Being incompetent is not a reason, but a few comments are?

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Satyr3206 said:

Just a thought. Being incompetent is not a reason, but a few comments are?

Are you talking about Crane?

[Satyr3206]

Just to be clear. I get the rebuilding. Try to get a few pitchers to make it through the season. Bundy would have given us innings. But a few bucks precluded that.

[Satyr3206]

Not Crane at all. Looking at Baseball history. Manfred is the worst Commissioner in my lifetime. That's saying something compared to Bowie Kuhn  and Selig.

 I hate the direction baseball is going. Just my opinion.

[UpstateNYfan]

On 2/15/2020 at 11:17 AM, Frobby said:

I am going to assume that Elias wasn’t directly involved, but was aware of what was going on and didn’t do anything about it.    You could second guess his silence, but I agree with Corn that most would have done the same thing and I’m not holding it against Elias.    It’s now on him to ensure that nothing similar happens on his watch in Baltimore.    That’s his responsibility.

Putting aside any moral issue, there’s the practical issue of whether the use of cutting edge analytics and forward thinking methods actually helps in player selection, development and coaching, if the game is played honestly.      I think it does, and that it’s very important that the O’s have come out of the Stone Age and are looking to become a leader in this regard, not merely a club that meets industry standards.    But the proof will be in the pudding.    And I note, real pudding takes time for the ingredient to mix, to come to a boil, and to thicken.    And it tastes a lot better than instant pudding.   That’s why I’ll be patient in waiting for Elias’ work to come to fruition.   

 

Yep, most would stay silent. So, it's ok??? Really, you are on that moral plane? Nice to know and congrats.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, UpstateNYfan said:

Yep, most would stay silent. So, it's ok??? Really, you are on that moral plane? Nice to know and congrats.

Oh, get off your high horse.   I once had to report an attorney who was my co-Counsel in a matter, and who I was very friendly with, to prosecutors for tampering with evidence.    I then had to testify against him in the grand jury and at a trial where my testimony lasted several days. Try it sometime.