Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

[CallMeBrooksie]

Just now, atomic said:

Why is it irrelevant? And they are a sports league. Neither sport will have fans so it is pretty much the same thing.  Hockey  and NBA are also very far along.  

How many teams does he women's soccer league have? How much money are they making?

If MLB had similarly low payroll with similarly few players, then they would have had a deal already as well. 

MLB and NBA were already nearing the end of their regular seasons, meaning the bulk of their salaries have been earned/paid. 

BIG differences in both cases. The women's soccer comparison is just hilarious 

[scOtt]

59 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I believe they're closer than what they're publicly portraying. I think they both know they can't afford to lose an entire season. They're already down the path of logistics. It's purely a money issue, regardless of the posturing that takes place through the media.

Also whatever women's soccer is doing is beyond irrelevant. Not interested whatsoever. 

Repped to counteract the inevitable downvote. Disagree with atomic - get a red pip!

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:20 PM, MurphDogg said:

Ok, I really am not going to read any more until tomorrow but I couldn't let this stand.

I know I am just a small country lawyer and you are a noted labor law expert, but please advise me as to the total lack of logic into my argument.

That is great news about teams not having to honor the CBA, I assume that goes for the players too. I guess all the players are free agents now, I hope we sign Mike Trout! Glad that Davis contract albatross is no longer hanging around the Orioles necks!

The bottom line is that the owners made a lousy deal in March. It happens. The players have made many missteps in previous CBA negotiations, from not foreseeing the collapse in the free market for mid-range players to not trying to stake a claim early on into MLBAM and other ancillary rights.

My belief is that the owners were unrealistically optimistic about the thought of things returning to normal faster than the experts said. Their thought process was likely something along the lines of, "We will be playing by June 1st, and we sell fewer tickets in April and May so getting the players on a one-third discount will be a great deal, maybe we can even increase the number of games played in the summer and make more money off split gate double headers!". They also likely were overly focused on shortening the draft to achieve their long-term goal of cutting minor league teams and saving a few million dollars on the margin. 

Unfortunately, actions have consequences, MLB made a bad deal and have to live with the consequences. Maybe they should fire some of the yes-men who assured them that the season will start with fans in mid-May. Maybe they should fire the lawyers that they paid $800+ an hour to negotiate the contract with MLBPA for failing to properly negotiate for the possibility of playing without fans to better insulate themselves from potential losses. 

I see both sides, but both sides don't need to compromise. The time for compromise was in March, when the deal was made. A compromise was reached, amateur players got screwed, MLB players got a short term loan (or payment if the season was canceled) to tide themselves over, MLB got cost certainty, and likely (mistakenly) believed that they had pulled one over on the players by cutting their salaries while still being able to hold all the major events of the season and play in front of fans.

Now MLB has to honor the deal by paying the players on a pro-rated basis, or open their books and prove to the players that they would lose more money doing that than they would canceling the season. The MLBPA doesn't owe x amount of profitability to MLB, in much the same way that the league doesn't share profits with them. It is a business arrangement entered into by professionals with highly paid lawyers who are among the best in their field. Unfortunately for MLB, it looks like this deal is going to bite them in the behind. It isn't up to the players to bail them out.

Hope to hear more constructive comments tomorrow, I am off to enjoy my birthday!

 

Happy birthday!

I agree with what you said here - but I think if we learned anything from the MASN Legal Jamberoo, it's that rich people don't really care what deal they signed. They'll yell, complain, and try to get things changed in court. 

So, I don't think the owners are going to roll over and be like, "Aw shucks, we did sign that deal - you got us." They're going to keep negotiating and claim that circumstances changed, so the original deal isn't valid. 

MLB and MLBPA need to stop negotiating in public. It's a bad look and is going to turn fans away.

[weams]

Soft deadline of tomorrow.  For July 4 games. 
 

 

[atomic]

17 hours ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

How many teams does he women's soccer league have? How much money are they making?

If MLB had similarly low payroll with similarly few players, then they would have had a deal already as well. 

MLB and NBA were already nearing the end of their regular seasons, meaning the bulk of their salaries have been earned/paid. 

BIG differences in both cases. The women's soccer comparison is just hilarious 

Actually it is actually a great comparison. They have 9 teams.  If women soccer players are willing to take risks playing for much lower salary then men's baseball players shouldn't be complaining about playing for $7.5 million for the year.  And the women soccer players are making a lot more than minor league baseball players make.   All these excuses for baseball.  MLS teams have been working out at team facilities since earlier this month.  Everyone seems to have plans in place and making progress but baseball.  

[atomic]

5 hours ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

Happy birthday!

I agree with what you said here - but I think if we learned anything from the MASN Legal Jamberoo, it's that rich people don't really care what deal they signed. They'll yell, complain, and try to get things changed in court. 

So, I don't think the owners are going to roll over and be like, "Aw shucks, we did sign that deal - you got us." They're going to keep negotiating and claim that circumstances changed, so the original deal isn't valid. 

MLB and MLBPA need to stop negotiating in public. It's a bad look and is going to turn fans away.

The players would sue in a New York minute if there wasn't anything signed. 

[atomic]

18 minutes ago, weams said:

Soft deadline of tomorrow.  For July 4 games. 
 

 

I doubt we see any games. No plan yet. Players and Owners are far apart. Now there are riots across the country.  Baseball will take the year off.   Good time to check out other sports. Maybe some of you will become Women soccer fans.   

[atomic]

16 hours ago, scOtt said:

Repped to counteract the inevitable downvote. Disagree with atomic - get a red pip!

Funny people have been disagreeing me throughout this thread and I didn't down vote them but you down voted a prior post of mine in this thread.  Clearly a misogynistic post that I down voted.   I see where you stand. 

[CallMeBrooksie]

53 minutes ago, atomic said:

Funny people have been disagreeing me throughout this thread and I didn't down vote them but you down voted a prior post of mine in this thread.  Clearly a misogynistic post that I down voted.   I see where you stand. 

Misogynistic, huh? I won't ask you to point out the misogyny in my post, because I'm 1000% sure you don't know what that word means.

You are totally incapable of holding an adult conversation. Like seriously.. your primary reason for existence here is to virtue signal about whatever random peripheral issue that you find in others posts. You spew nonsense, get dunked on, then Cry racism/misogony/victimhood over and over again and nauseum. 

Up until this point the only reason you haven't been on my ignore list is that you're wildly out of tune opinions provide me entertainment. 

[backwardsk]

3 hours ago, atomic said:

I doubt we see any games. No plan yet. Players and Owners are far apart. Now there are riots across the country.  Baseball will take the year off.   Good time to check out other sports. Maybe some of you will become Women soccer fans.   

What do the riots have to do with an agreement to play MLB baseball?  Why put that in your post?

[atomic]

3 hours ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Misogynistic, huh? I won't ask you to point out the misogyny in my post, because I'm 1000% sure you don't know what that word means.

You are totally incapable of holding an adult conversation. Like seriously.. your primary reason for existence here is to virtue signal about whatever random peripheral issue that you find in others posts. You spew nonsense, get dunked on, then Cry racism/misogony/victimhood over and over again and nauseum. 

Up until this point the only reason you haven't been on my ignore list is that you're wildly out of tune opinions provide me entertainment. 

When I have declared racism?  Find that post.  Maybe you have other issues that you need to work out that have nothing to do with me.

[atomic]

49 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

What do the riots have to do with an agreement to play MLB baseball?  Why put that in your post?

There are widespread issues in the country right now.  I don’t think baseball is important.  You have curfews in many cities.  We have covid quarantines.  And you have baseball players and owners arguing over money.  Seems better to restart in the spring with a hope things turn around,

[MongoBoy]

4 hours ago, atomic said:

I doubt we see any games. No plan yet. Players and Owners are far apart. Now there are riots across the country.  Baseball will take the year off.   Good time to check out other sports. Maybe some of you will become Women soccer fans.   

Women's soccer?  I'm game.

[weams]

39 minutes ago, atomic said:

There are widespread issues in the country right now.  I don’t think baseball is important.  You have curfews in many cities.  We have covid quarantines.  And you have baseball players and owners arguing over money.  Seems better to restart in the spring with a hope things turn around,

I do not want any of those widespread issues brought up by you or discussed in this thread. 
 

Please, no response. 

[Redskins Rick]

The owners submitted their plan, the players submitted their plans.

Neither is close to each other, so how quick can they find some middle ground and get this thing done?