The Shortstop Market

[Aristotelian]

13 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I don't really think we would have traded Iglesias at a very reasonable $3.5 million (iirc) for 2 C+ pitching prospects just to sign another SS for a similar pricetag (or more, which I would expect to be the case with at least Simmons, Semien, and Didi). Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the point of that move was almost purely just to cut payroll, which leaves me expecting them to snag an all-glove scrap heap type of guy that will sign for ~$1 million or less.

Sure we would. Mike said in his recent interview that they liked the return on Iglesias and are looking to use that "model" again. Until Gunnar etc is ready, it makes perfect sense to look for an undervalued veteran on a short contract and flip if they play well. 

[Ruzious]

11 hours ago, wildcard said:

Elias said he scouted Stallings and considers him one of the best pitchers in the SEC that year, plus they got video on him in the instructs this past season.  His comments are at the 3.00 point of this video.

https://www.masnsports.com/videos/2020/12/mike-elias-on-trading-jose-iglesias-non-tendering-hanser-alberto.html

Signing Iglesias and trading him appears to be a method of acquiring young talent that Elias feels in good for the team.   He could try to sign  a similar talent and spent 2.5-3m to do the same thing again.  Its apparently what he does.

Stallings was a 5th round pick last draft.  How much could Elias have liked him if he didn't draft him?   

[wildcard]

25 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Stallings was a 5th round pick last draft.  How much could Elias have liked him if he didn't draft him?   

You would have to ask Elias that question.  But I can say this.  Position players were Elias priority in the 2019 draft.  He did not draft a pitcher until the 8th round.

[Sports Guy]

Just put someone out there who can catch the ball.  Defense is what will matter.

How good they are outside of that is relatively meaningless, especially since the team doesn’t care about winning.

Just get good defense and don’t block anyone long term.  My guess is by July of 2022 we will know where we stand with the SS position in the system.  
 

It’s possible that after 2021, it’s defined clearly for the team and they can go after one of the big time FA SS but I think that will largely be a mistake unless some of them sign for a lot less than I would guess right now.  
 

Just don’t do anything stupid with the position.  

[Ruzious]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

You would have to ask Elias that question.  But I can say this.  Position players were Elias priority in the 2019 draft.  He did not draft a pitcher until the 8th round.

I think it's pretty clear that the main reason he traded Iglesias was because of money.  But if he does spend $3 mil plus on a SS, I'll gladly say I was wrong.  

[OldNewGuy]

Put Ritchie Martin at short for the first 50 to 60 games and see what he’s got. Keep Ruiz at third, and Sanchez at second. With Davis at first you have a solid field no hit infield. Just rely on analytics to position the infielders. All they need is an accurate arm so they don’t throw too many balls away and soft hands to pickup the balls hit at them. Don’t need great range. Pitchers are expected to strike out at least one batter per inning so don’t need as good an infield defense as before. Less ground balls to be fielded. Valaika can be subbed at any position and could still get his AB’s. That way, the Orioles can save 2.5 million on a ss and be just as good as if they did spend the money. Winning is not the objective in 2021.   

[Just Regular]

Mets getting Lindor for '21 maybe doesn't move Oriole Bronze Medal Andrelton needle much as I doubt anyone was clamoring to make Rosario their SS, and he's an okay 2B fit for Bieber Supporting Cast (just so long as you are inexpensive enough) if they keep him.   It does perhaps answer that in 2021 despite being among the planet's 30 best shortstops this year (barely), Amed Rosario won't get one of the musical chairs.

The main thing for this month is now unsuccessful Lindor suitors at last begin treating seriously with Semien, Didi and Andrelton.   

And Galvis too, I suppose.

Please A's sign Galvis for cheap.

[murph]

2 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

Mets getting Lindor for '21 maybe doesn't move Oriole Bronze Medal Andrelton needle much as I doubt anyone was clamoring to make Rosario their SS, and he's an okay 2B fit for Bieber Supporting Cast (just so long as you are inexpensive enough) if they keep him.   It does perhaps answer that in 2021 despite being among the planet's 30 best shortstops this year (barely), Amed Rosario won't get one of the musical chairs.

The main thing for this month is now unsuccessful Lindor suitors at last begin treating seriously with Semien, Didi and Andrelton.   

And Galvis too, I suppose.

Please A's sign Galvis for cheap.

Andrelton is my wish. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, murph said:

Andrelton is my wish. 

I don't think he's going to be willing to take a 13M pay cut.

[murph]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think he's going to be willing to take a 13M pay cut.

Yeaaa...should have said "dream", but that was a bit much for my level of interest too.  Just hoping he somehow falls to us and needs a rebuild his value year. 

[Yardball85]

Per Roch, O's are considering Villar, Robertson, Galvis.  Just for the sage of nostalgia, I'd be fine with Villar on a one year deal.  I doubt we'd get much for him at the deadline, considering we didn't get much for him after his big 2019.

 

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/01/orioles-notes-on-minicamp-and-free-agent-possibilities.html

[Roll Tide]

On 12/25/2020 at 10:35 AM, OldNewGuy said:

Put Ritchie Martin at short for the first 50 to 60 games and see what he’s got. Keep Ruiz at third, and Sanchez at second. With Davis at first you have a solid field no hit infield. Just rely on analytics to position the infielders. All they need is an accurate arm so they don’t throw too many balls away and soft hands to pickup the balls hit at them. Don’t need great range. Pitchers are expected to strike out at least one batter per inning so don’t need as good an infield defense as before. Less ground balls to be fielded. Valaika can be subbed at any position and could still get his AB’s. That way, the Orioles can save 2.5 million on a ss and be just as good as if they did spend the money. Winning is not the objective in 2021.   

I’m confident Davis will be mostly a bench player this year. There’s no fixing him and he’s clearly not worth giving at bats to. I think he’s only on the roster as they are hoping he will quit or whatever. I still don’t understand why they didn’t write him off and use the money saved by deal Iglesias to a minimum salary player.

[jamalshw]

25 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Per Roch, O's are considering Villar, Robertson, Galvis.  Just for the sage of nostalgia, I'd be fine with Villar on a one year deal.  I doubt we'd get much for him at the deadline, considering we didn't get much for him after his big 2019.

 

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/01/orioles-notes-on-minicamp-and-free-agent-possibilities.html

I don't think any of those names would yield much at the deadline regardless of the season they're having. I also don't think they're looking for a SS to flip, but rather one to stabilize the infield a bit for the young pitchers. (Of course, if they got a deal they liked I'm sure they'd move whomever they get at the deadline--like they did with Iglesias this winter). Galvis is who I ultimately expect us to sign. But I'm not sure it really matters.

[jamalshw]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m confident Davis will be mostly a bench player this year. There’s no fixing him and he’s clearly not worth giving at bats to. I think he’s only on the roster as they are hoping he will quit or whatever. I still don’t understand why they didn’t write him off and use the money saved by deal Iglesias to a minimum salary player.

Not to derail this thread too much, but I believe he's on the roster because they believe the chance the 2021 season will be shortened and/or the 2022 season may be delayed by CBA fighting is high enough to outweigh the cost of keeping him. If either (or both) of those things happen, that decreases what the Orioles have to pay Davis. If he's cut now, he's owed what he's owed, but if either the 2021 or 2022 season is shortened, they could save some money.

[Yardball85]

4 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

I don't think any of those names would yield much at the deadline regardless of the season they're having. I also don't think they're looking for a SS to flip, but rather one to stabilize the infield a bit for the young pitchers. (Of course, if they got a deal they liked I'm sure they'd move whomever they get at the deadline--like they did with Iglesias this winter). Galvis is who I ultimately expect us to sign. But I'm not sure it really matters.

I have no disagreement with anything in your post.