NL VP of Scouting : " It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing."

[OFFNY]

o

 

Granted that I'm generally one of the more homer-ish type of Oriole fans, but I am hoping that Matt Harvey has a solid season in 2021. The Orioles signed him to a Minor League contract in February, and he wound up making the Major League team in March. I'm not sure exactly what category that that would fall under (Minor League free agent or something else), but my own hopes for him will be up there until he shows otherwise.

 

o

[LTO's]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The facility in the DR is irrelevant to this discussion and his point.

And they don’t get a pat on the back for doing something most teams have been doing for years.

This GM is talking about the new FO. It's essentially new ownership and definitely new baseball ops. He's expressly criticizing Elias and co. for all they have done post 2018. I'm not sure how they don't get a pat on the back for completely revamping the international efforts in such a short amount of time. They essentially had no presence down there for decades and now they are signing guys to six figure deals and spending tens of millions on a brand new complex. By and large the Orioles are a joke, but this a genuinely impressive feat. Many scouting pubs, including BA have acknowledged this. 

In terms of his point about the Orioles signing worse minor league FAs than the rest of the league, it's so laughable I don't think anyone needs to comment on it. This is clearly an axe to grind situation. There are teams being run much worse than the Orioles. To single them out at this point is insane. It wouldn't shock me if this is a concerted effort large market teams are making to get "tanking" out of the game so they can have more 1998-2011 Orioles teams than early 2010s Astros, Cubs and Braves teams. Look at the Royals. Trading an actual prospect for Andrew Benintendi and giving a ridiculous contract to Salvador Perez. For what? To signal they're competing? I'm sure the Yankees et. al aren't laughing about how worthless those moves are. 

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, LTO's said:

This GM is talking about the new FO. It's essentially new ownership and definitely new baseball ops. He's expressly criticizing Elias and co. for all they have done post 2018. I'm not sure how they don't get a pat on the back for completely revamping the international efforts in such a short amount of time. They essentially had no presence down there for decades and now they are signing guys to six figure deals and spending tens of millions on a brand new complex. By and large the Orioles are a joke, but this a genuinely impressive feat. Many scouting pubs, including BA have acknowledged this. 

In terms of his point about the Orioles signing worse minor league FAs than the rest of the league, it's so laughable I don't think anyone needs to comment on it. This is clearly an axe to grind situation. There are teams being run much worse than the Orioles. To single them out at this point is insane. It wouldn't shock me if this is a concerted effort large market teams are making to get "tanking" out of the game so they can have more 1998-2011 Orioles teams than early 2010s Astros, Cubs and Braves teams. Look at the Royals. Trading an actual prospect for Andrew Benintendi and giving a ridiculous contract to Salvador Perez. For what? To signal they're competing? I'm sure the Yankees et. al aren't laughing about how worthless those moves are. 

 

I haven’t seen the full context but first of all, this isn’t a GM talking and secondly, why do you think there is an axe to grind?  
 

Is there more to the quote than this?  If so, I see no reason to think that.

[webbrick2010]

Embarrassing is a system that leave no recourse to management for a contract like the Davis contract, where the player is clearly in breech of contract and should be forced onto a MLB version of long term disability.

[LTO's]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They were certainly "tanking" in 2018.  You don't trade off everyone you can because you are trying to win.

Now granted they were not "Tanking" in April but by late May?

What's the point of making this distinction? Clearly they were trying to win that year and it was a downright terrible decision. Franchise altering terrible decision. They had the worst team in baseball as it turned out. They obviously weren't going to compete from June on and decided to try to get prospects for what little ML value they had. The Yankees and Red Sox have been in that situation and done the same thing. I really don't see how that's bad for the game. Sounds like front office people of good teams wanting the bad teams to stay bad. That's my point. Why would they want more Astros, Cubs, White Sox and Braves like teams in the league instead of the Reds, Rockies and Angels? I don't buy for a second the actually care about the integrity of the game or better yet, players getting paid. 

Also, unlike you, I am going to choose not to get mad about something that may or may not happen in a year's time. If Elias doesn't start signaling for the team to be competitive next year I will be quite annoyed but we aren't there yet. 

[Jammer7]

That quote is just noise, low hanging fruit for those who do not agree with Elias’ development model. Of course they are not signing the better minor league free agents. Many of them would block the prospects we have at AAA, or even in AA. You have to have roster spots for prospects, and those prospects need innings to develop. We have many actual prospects in AAA for a change. Why waste money on guys who will not play here? I think it smart to maximize what we already have here and cherry pick a few reclamation projects. Makes me wonder if he disliked the shrinking of the scouting department and has a personal axe to grind. 

I get the impatience with losing at the major league level, but we know the money is being spent on infrastructure improvements and technology. Elias has not gone half in, he is all in. This is the management of our team we have been waiting for most of our adult lives. I was 15 years old in 1983. I was used to winning baseball. I took it for granted. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

That quote is just noise, low hanging fruit for those who do not agree with Elias’ development model. Of course they are not signing the better minor league free agents. Many of them would block the prospects we have at AAA, or even in AA. You have to have roster spots for prospects, and those prospects need innings to develop. We have many actual prospects in AAA for a change. Why waste money on guys who will not play here? I think it smart to maximize what we already have here and cherry pick a few reclamation projects. Makes me wonder if he disliked the shrinking of the scouting department and has a personal axe to grind. 

I get the impatience with losing at the major league level, but we know the money is being spent on infrastructure improvements and technology. Elias has not gone half in, he is all in. This is the management of our team we have been waiting for most of our adult lives. I was 15 years old in 1983. I was used to winning baseball. I took it for granted. 

The thing is, the money being spent on that infrastructure should be spent anyway.  Most teams manage to do both.

The idea that it’s ok to not spend it on the team because it’s being spent there is wrong imo.

I mean, look at it a different way.  If/when this team starts to win and spend more on the ML product, we that mean they won’t be spending internationally anymore?  Does that mean they will give up on technology?

[Number5]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I haven’t seen the full context but first of all, this isn’t a GM talking and secondly, why do you think there is an axe to grind?  
 

Is there more to the quote than this?  If so, I see no reason to think that.

Well, it does seem odd to trash an opposing team's moves (or non-moves) in the media.  To what purpose?  I think that thinking the guy might have an axe to grind against either Elias or the Orioles is a reasonable possibility. 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, LTO's said:

What's the point of making this distinction? Clearly they were trying to win that year and it was a downright terrible decision. Franchise altering terrible decision. They had the worst team in baseball as it turned out. They obviously weren't going to compete from June on and decided to try to get prospects for what little ML value they had. The Yankees and Red Sox have been in that situation and done the same thing. I really don't see how that's bad for the game. Sounds like front office people of good teams wanting the bad teams to stay bad. That's my point. Why would they want more Astros, Cubs, White Sox and Braves like teams in the league instead of the Reds, Rockies and Angels? I don't buy for a second the actually care about the integrity of the game or better yet, players getting paid. 

Also, unlike you, I am going to choose not to get mad about something that may or may not happen in a year's time. If Elias doesn't start signaling for the team to be competitive next year I will be quite annoyed but we aren't there yet. 

Because during the 2018 season they traded off every asset they could to both cut expenses and gather resources for the future.  That is what tanking is.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Number5 said:

Well, it does seem odd to trash an opposing team's moves (or non-moves) in the media.  To what purpose?  I think that thinking the guy might have an axe to grind against either Elias or the Orioles is a reasonable possibility. 

Or, you know, they are actually embarrassed by how the Orioles are going about things.

Seems every bit as likely as them having an axe to grind.

I just love the Baltimore Victim Syndrome.  Everyone is out to get us!  The MLB Umps, the NCAA Refs, the National Media!

[Number5]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Or, you know, they are actually embarrassed by how the Orioles are going about things.

Seems every bit as likely as them having an axe to grind.

???

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Well, it does seem odd to trash an opposing team's moves (or non-moves) in the media.  To what purpose?  I think that thinking the guy might have an axe to grind against either Elias or the Orioles is a reasonable possibility. 

What was he asked?  What is the context?
 

It’s not odd if they asked him his opinion on how the Os are fielding their ML product or something along those lines. 

[LTO's]

50 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Still, it’s not necessary to keep doing it either.

On every thread I see you saying this. Not once have you ever provided anything close to a viable alternative. The previous regimes failed to develop/traded away a significant portion of future ML value, had no investment internationally and even forfeited high draft picks to overpay mediocre FAs. They also erroneously spent tens of millions of dollars on extensions for fan favorite players like Hardy, Davis and Trumbo which I'm sure strained finances.  No matter what you think of the Angeloses or baseball ownership in general, it's not feasible for the Orioles to have payrolls over $200 mil. Especially for teams as barren as the 2018-2020 Orioles. So what could they do to compete with the Yankees, Rays and Blue Jays this year and next? 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, LTO's said:

On every thread I see you saying this. Not once have you ever provided anything close to a viable alternative. The previous regimes failed to develop/traded away a significant portion of future ML value, had no investment internationally and even forfeited high draft picks to overpay mediocre FAs. They also erroneously spent tens of millions of dollars on extensions for fan favorite players like Hardy, Davis and Trumbo which I'm sure strained finances.  No matter what you think of the Angeloses or baseball ownership in general, it's not feasible for the Orioles to have payrolls over $200 mil. Especially for teams as barren as the 2018-2020 Orioles. So what could they do to compete with the Yankees, Rays and Blue Jays this year and next? 

You just wrote a lot of words for nothing.  
 

No where have I said they could or even should spend money like that.  No where have I said they weren’t left with a pile of sh** from the previous regime.  In fact, I have said the biggest mistake this organization has ever made, arguably, is not trading Manny and Britton after 2016.  
 

I don’t know why you are even talking about in terms of a viable alternative.  I spent tons of posts and words talking about this.   You just have to read it and not cherry pick what you want to.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

>some anonymous dork outside of the organization said a thing to some other dork outside of the organization

Wow, truly riveting stuff...