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NL VP of Scouting : " It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing."

jamesenoch

By jamesenoch
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LTO's Major Leaguer

LTO's

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It is not as if Dan's group were complete failures when it came to producing ML talent, even if Dan traded a fair bit of it away.

Dans group were dismal at developing starting pitching. 

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interloper
interloper

What's embarrassing is that the previous regime buried its head in the sand trying to compete 2 or 3 years beyond their window, completely ignoring the international market out of some phony PA princi

Tony-OH
Tony-OH

We see some of that money going into the DR complex and we've spent just fine on International prospects and Amateur draft so it's clear Elias is pending his money on the future.  Obviously you c

interloper
interloper

I could not shrug harder.

LookinUp Hangout Grand Counsel

LookinUp

Posted
Posted

Doesn't literally everyone agree that with a lost season of minor league games, we have almost no clue how well Elias has acquired and developed guys since he's been here?

The indications are good, from the pitching and winning statistics in year 1 generally, to the development of Baumann and Lowther specifically. Yet we have no clue if we've found a diamond through the international draft, or if guys like Stowers or Welk will surprise, etc. Who even knows about Kjerstad? Individual players aside, regardless of who is drafted, my sense is that the chances of success of the players inside our minor leagues are higher than they were at any time over the last 30 years.

Still, while I'm all in on Elias, I admit that we have to see the product improve on the field before we give him an unequivocal thumbs up.

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cmcgarvey Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

cmcgarvey

Posted
Posted
Just now, LookinUp said:

Doesn't literally everyone agree that with a lost season of minor league games, we have almost no clue how well Elias has acquired and developed guys since he's been here?

Are you seriously trying to apply logic to a sports fansite?

 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LTO's said:

Contrarian is contrarian 

Gausman and Bundy were representational products of their draft position.  Matusz had some early success as a starter.  Eduardo Rodriguez has had a nice career as has Zach Davies.

That's enough to move them out of dismal.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

Posted
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45 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Gausman and Bundy were representational products of their draft position. Matusz had some early success as a starter. Eduardo Rodriguez has had a nice career as has Zach Davies.

That's enough to move them out of dismal.

 

o

 

Chris Tillman also came alive in 2012, after struggling in his first 3 seasons in the Majors from 2009 through 2011.

 

o

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

Posted
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55 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Gausman and Bundy were representational products of their draft position.  Matusz had some early success as a starter.  Eduardo Rodriguez has had a nice career as has Zach Davies.

That's enough to move them out of dismal.

Yeah, I stopped taking you seriously at Gausman. 

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Gausman and Bundy were representational products of their draft position.  Matusz had some early success as a starter.  Eduardo Rodriguez has had a nice career as has Zach Davies.

That's enough to move them out of dismal.

I think the issue is everyone wants to link the last 3 decades all into one. I can see the argument from say post Mussina era until last decade. Not recently. 

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, I stopped taking you seriously at Gausman. 

Gausman was better here than he gets credit for. 
 

There is this idea all these other teams also all develop all their starters. It’s false. 

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

Posted
Posted
Just now, eddie83 said:

I think the issue is everyone wants to link the last 3 decades all into one. I can see the argument from say post Mussina era until last decade. Not recently. 

Gausman was better here than he gets credit for. 
 

There is this idea all these other teams also all develop all their starters. It’s false. 

No but there's this idea that guys leave Baltimore and go on to do better elsewhere.  It's true.

Gausman wasn't great.  That's why we traded him for bad bargaining chips and Atlanta dumped him quickly, too.  SF might have been able to figure him out but I wouldn't bet on it.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

No but there's this idea that guys leave Baltimore and go on to do better elsewhere.  It's true.

Gausman wasn't great.  That's why we traded him for bad bargaining chips and Atlanta dumped him quickly, too.  SF might have been able to figure him out but I wouldn't bet on it.

Dumping O'Day's contract really impacted the Gausman return.

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OsFanSinceThe80s Hangout Grand Counsel

OsFanSinceThe80s

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

No but there's this idea that guys leave Baltimore and go on to do better elsewhere.  It's true.

Gausman wasn't great.  That's why we traded him for bad bargaining chips and Atlanta dumped him quickly, too.  SF might have been able to figure him out but I wouldn't bet on it.

Gausman also has stretches where he pitches well until he doesn't. I want to see what a full season of Gausman looks like in San Francisco. 

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

No but there's this idea that guys leave Baltimore and go on to do better elsewhere.  It's true.

Gausman wasn't great.  That's why we traded him for bad bargaining chips and Atlanta dumped him quickly, too.  SF might have been able to figure him out but I wouldn't bet on it.

Look around the sport. How many good pitchers are with their original drafted team?  
 

Gausman has been all over the map since he left. Bundy I thought made strides here his last season. No idea how he would have fared here how he stayed. I think his style of pitching is a better fit out west also. 

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survivedc Major Leaguer Rising Star

survivedc

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

No but there's this idea that guys leave Baltimore and go on to do better elsewhere.  It's true.

Gausman wasn't great.  That's why we traded him for bad bargaining chips and Atlanta dumped him quickly, too.  SF might have been able to figure him out but I wouldn't bet on it.

We’ve gotten back at least one interesting piece in Zimmerman. If he ends up as a back of the rotation guy for the next 3 or so years that trade is worth it.

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LTO's Major Leaguer

LTO's

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Dumping O'Day's contract really impacted the Gausman return.

He was never going to bring back an orgs top 5 prospect which is really bad considering his age and prospect pedigree. You are really overrating his value at that time and the effect Odays contract had. 
 

Dan and co. brought him up before he developed a consistent breaking pitch and after a while his fastball was teed off on. That’s a failure of development for a very promising prospect.  What even is the point of mentioning Erod and Davies? Both of them developed elsewhere. The fact that both of them were traded for rentals means that Dan clearly didn’t value them very highly. Another absolute failure on his part in regards to pitching in the org. Dan stripped this org down to nothing to win ONE playoff series. I don’t get why people look back so fondly on his time. 

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