Losing Loewen?

[TonySoprano]

Fair enough. Put it this way - loyalty to the Blue Jays isn't going to enter into it.

He'll be their traitor. If we're going to play the moral equivalent game, if he opts out that's worse than Canadian Loewen essentially walking away from a handshake agreement to play for his favorite team. Sure there was an opt out clause for Burnett, but he doesn't have to take it. He has his best year, Toronto fans will say convienently in a possible walk year like he did with Florida. Gaston thinks he has himself another Josh Hamilton in the making, but that may never come to pass. Burnett has a track record.

[BedardisAce]

Its also worth noting that I have never seen Andy MacPhail so straight with the media and so obviously pissed. Saying Baltimore was a proud member of the United States seems to be illustrate this and fully back up Sonny's comments.

[ledzepp8]

Somebody needs to fill me in. How could we have kept him anyway?? I assume some people wanted him on the 40 man roster but was that possible without paying him by his big league contract. Even if that was possible I don't see how taking a risk on him was the best use of one of our 40 man spots.

I'm not an expert on it by any means, but it was my understanding that the plan was to release him so they could resign him to a minor league contract in order to put him in the minors.

Although come to think about it, if he cleared waivers after being released couldn't they have just DFA'd him and not made him a free agent?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Somebody needs to fill me in. How could we have kept him anyway?? I assume some people wanted him on the 40 man roster but was that possible without paying him by his big league contract. Even if that was possible I don't see how taking a risk on him was the best use of one of our 40 man spots.

See, this is the kind of logical thought that has no place in a thread like this.

This isn't Mussina being a traitor. This isn't the front office screwing up with Chris Gomez. This is the front office taking a chance that they HAD to take, and Loewen finding a better deal.

If this was us signing someone from Baltimore under the same circumstances, people here would be celebrating.

[hoosiers]

This isn't the front office screwing up with Chris Gomez. This is the front office taking a chance that they HAD to take, and Loewen finding a better deal.

This is our FO taking a risk they chose to take - just like with Josh Phelps.

They did not HAVE to take this risk. Our FO is responsible for the risks they take. It's preposterous to hear via other posters that our FO is "steamed" that the risk taken has failed.

[ccbird]

I'm not an expert on it by any means, but it was my understanding that the plan was to release him so they could resign him to a minor league contract in order to put him in the minors.

Although come to think about it, if he cleared waivers after being released couldn't they have just DFA'd him and not made him a free agent?

Right but Hoosiers and some others are blaming the FO. I just don't see how the FO did anything even remotely close to wrong. You certainly can't keep this guy on the 40 man if he is earning a big league salary but even if your not paying him a lot of money it's highly doubtful you keep a 40 man spot open for a guy who is completely unproven as a hitter and probably 3 years minimum away from the bigs again.

[ledzepp8]

I guess we'll see if "promises were made".

I would expect the Os let AL know of their plans for him and why they were doing what they were doing. If there were a commitment from AL to follow that plan, then, yes, this would mostly be on AL.

If? Do you really think that the Orioles made strides to switch him to hitter by sending him to an instructional league and saving a roster spot for him in the winter league without some kind of assurances/promises from Adam? I doubt it. I mean like I said, it's his choice if he wanted to sign elsewhere...but it certainly makes him look a little bad.

[eric0668]

His initial 5 year contract with the Orioles expired in 2007 and for 2008 he was on 1 year contract. By releasing him, the team owes him nothing.

Thanks for explaining that Mark. I appreciate it. I try not to post the simple ones... but sometimes I have to

Have a good weekend all...

[ledzepp8]

Right but Hoosiers and some others are blaming the FO. I just don't see how the FO did anything even remotely close to wrong. You certainly can't keep this guy on the 40 man if he is earning a big league salary but even if your not paying him a lot of money it's highly doubtful you keep a 40 man spot open for a guy who is completely unproven as a hitter and probably 3 years minimum away from the bigs again.

Yeah I agree, I see no fault with the FO. Like I said, this is all on Adam...he backed out of his promise. It's his choice in the end, but his character and word definitely take a hit.

[Frobby]

See, this is the kind of logical thought that has no place in a thread like this.

This isn't Mussina being a traitor. This isn't the front office screwing up with Chris Gomez. This is the front office taking a chance that they HAD to take, and Loewen finding a better deal.

If this was us signing someone from Baltimore under the same circumstances, people here would be celebrating.

If you don't feel Loewen has been a traitor, that's fine. But there is nothing he did that was less traitorous than Mussina.

Mussina pitched great for this team for 10 years. He earned every penny he made here. He signed a below-market deal with the team the first time he was eligible for free agency, for which he was criticized by the player's union. A year before that contract was up, he offered to re-sign for 5 years, $12.5 mm, which was utterly fair. The O's chose not to take him up on it. They didn't have to take any chance at all -- they could have avoided having Mussina test the market, and they chose not to. Then, as you put it, Mussina "found a better deal." A much, much better deal. A deal he would have been crazy not to take. So he took it.

And by the way, Mussina grew up rooting for the Yankees, just like Loewen grew up rooting for the Blue Jays, so don't try that excuse.

[threedaysrest]

I always got the vibe that this "experiment" with Loewen had an overwhelming air of bass-ackwardness. Comebacks like Ankiel's are exceedingly rare and difficult. For some reason, the O's, in a me too moment, wanted to pursue it to try to recover some value on Loewen's bloated contract. To all of it I say: Good riddance to a bust of an LHP who has a long-shot chance, at best, of returning as a position player. He's Toronto's problem now. The O's have an opportunity to fill that roster spot with someone with much more potential and ability from wherever--get to it, MacPhail.

[TonySoprano]

If you don't feel Loewen has been a traitor, that's fine. But there is nothing he did that was less traitorous than Mussina.

Mussina pitched great for this team for 10 years. He earned every penny he made here. He signed a below-market deal with the team the first time he was eligible for free agency, for which he was criticized by the player's union. A year before that contract was up, he offered to re-sign for 5 years, $12.5 mm, which was utterly fair. The O's chose not to take him up on it. They didn't have to take any chance at all -- they could have avoided having Mussina test the market, and they chose not to. Then, as you put it, Mussina "found a better deal." A much, much better deal. A deal he would have been crazy not to take. So he took it.

And by the way, Mussina grew up rooting for the Yankees, just like Loewen grew up rooting for the Blue Jays, so don't try that excuse.

Minor correction - Angelos chose not to take him up on it. Wren presented him the deal and recommended that he sign it.

Moose caught a lot of grief from the Players Union about the last contract he signed. The Orioles told him we don't give five year deals to pitchers, then he saw Erickson get just that. I agree with you that Mussina isn't quite the traitor that many paint him to be.

[NCRaven]

All the same, this is eerily reminiscent of the organization nearly losing Chris Gomez to the Phillies on a technicality and exposing Josh Phelps in the Rule V draft. It's one thing to put your top 40 best players, giving some consideration to lesser players at important or underserved positions, on your 40 man roster, and it is another thing to play these shenanigans in trying to squeeze a couple guys "around' the 40 man. Our FO is always trying to play these cute, little games and it always seems to bite us in the butt. If our FO is really mad at losing Loewen, then they obviously made a serious mistake in trying to figure a way to keep him in the organization without his taking up a roster spot.

Sorry Hoosiers, BS. This is nothing like the Gomez or Phelps situations. Loewen didn't just have to stay on our 40 man roster. He was out of options. He had to stay on the 25 man roster or go through waivers. What were they supposed to do? Make him our opening day 1Bman? That's ridiculous. They did exactly what they had to do. After paying Loewen millions of dollars on a major league contract, he pissed all over them. This was not anyone's "fault" but Loewen's, for what ever reason he choses to cite.

[BaltimoreTerp]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2008/10/loewen_leaves_orioles_at_the_a.html

The news that Loewen has signed with the Blue Jays is a little bit of a shock -- and it probably could be interpreted as a slap in the face by the O's front office -- but it's not exactly a setback for the Orioles organization. In fact, you can make the case that Loewen did the O's a favor by jumping ship, since the odds of him actually becoming a serviceable position player at the major league level remain quite long.

Chances are, he would have just been taking up space and getting a disproportionate amount of attention in the player development system, perhaps even getting institutional deference over some more legitimate prospects because of the amount of money the Orioles already have invested in him.

Interesting point-of-view.

[orangedive]

Only one thing left to do!

"They're not even a real country anyway."