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O’s 17th in payroll but 29th in wins since 2007

Frobby

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Was reading an article about the Royals on Fangraphs today and they listed every team’s total wins and total payroll since 2007.   The O’s rank 29th in wins, at 989, one game better than the Marlins, who spent about $463 mm less on payroll than the Orioles did.    That’s a lot to pay for one win!

Overall, the $1.343 bb paid in payroll by the Orioles was more than 13 other teams:

TBR, $818 mm, 1,157 wins

MIA $880 mm, 988 wins

PIT, $894 mm, 1,016 wins 

OAK, $950 mm, 1,113 wins

SDP $1006 mm, 1,012 wins

ARI $1170 mm, 1,068 wins

MIL $1170 mm, 1,170 wins

CLE $1174 mm, 1,140 wins

KCR $1186 mm, 1003 wins

CIN $1246 mm, 1,039 wins

MIN $1261 mm, 1,061 wins 

HOU $1268 mm, 1,058 wins

COL $1289 mm, 1,040 wins

Bottom line, we’ve been slightly below average in payroll, and almost dead last in results.   A tribute to bad management.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/yes-the-royals-can-win-the-al-central/

 

 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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27 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Well that's fairly depressing.

Hopefully with Elias building from within and their serious expansion into the Latin American market the Orioles will turn it around soon.

I mean, if he keeps payroll low then the overall numbers look better even if he doesn't win more.

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spiritof66 Hangout Grand Counsel

spiritof66

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh wait...tHeY HAd tHe bESt reCoRd iN thE Al oVeR A FivE yEar PerioD!

That makes up for everything.

Whether or not you think it makes up for anything -- and I think it does -- that five-year period makes the 29th-place win-loss performance even more impressive. It also  helps explain, in part, the poor finish: when you sell out for the prospect of instant success, and keep investment in the long-term success of the franchise at a minimum, you're likely to have some serious problems after a few years. 

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LTO's Major Leaguer

LTO's

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh wait...tHeY HAd tHe bESt reCoRd iN thE Al oVeR A FivE yEar PerioD!

That makes up for everything.

It really surprises me how fondly people look back on an era in which they only won one playoff series. They were really only good in 2014 (maybe 2012) and were largely mismanaged every year after that. Though there is a very low bar for success here.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Just now, LTO's said:

It really surprises me how fondly people look back on an era in which they only won one playoff series. They were really only good in 2014 (maybe 2012) and were largely mismanaged every year after that. Though there is a very low bar for success here.

I enjoyed that era but it doesn't make up for all the really bad baseball we've seen before and since.  What was so frustrating for me is that it was so easy to see this most recent crash coming and the team did nothing to avert it.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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4 minutes ago, LTO's said:

It really surprises me how fondly people look back on an era in which they only won one playoff series. They were really only good in 2014 (maybe 2012) and were largely mismanaged every year after that. Though there is a very low bar for success here.

In a world of blind men, the one-eyed man is king.    Most fan bases would not think 2012-16 was that remarkable, but when you have suffered through 14 straight losing seasons, any success feels good.   Now I’m just hoping it won’t be another 14 years before we return to contention, and that we have a higher and more sustained peak next time around.   

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In a world of blind men, the one-eyed man is king.    Most fan bases would not think 2012-16 was that remarkable, but when you have suffered through 14 straight losing seasons, any success feels good.   Now I’m just hoping it won’t be another 14 years before we return to contention, and that we have a higher and more sustained peak next time around.   

True, a fanbase that had experienced an even average level of success wouldn't have thought 2012 was more than just a good story season.  Hey we snuck into the playoffs in a year we were supposed to be pretty bad, nice.

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HowAboutThat Hangout Grand Counsel

HowAboutThat

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2012 and 2014 are really examples of a stopped clock being right twice a day.

”the random factors align”

a couple lucky moves, a couple guys “figuring it out” as Buck said ad nauseum, calling up Manny, and bang, there’s a sudden 93 wins. And really, is there a bigger difference ever than going from Betemit/Reynolds to Manny and his 7 WAR?

But that is all past. Dan and Mcphail and the “old ways” are gone and will never be seen again. Let’s look forward.

 

edit: I fail to see how my comment was confusing. The organization had no particular plan, most of the decisions were poor, and they had some bad luck. What happened in the good years was arguably a couple of decisions that turned out quite well, and some luck.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

True, a fanbase that had experienced an even average level of success wouldn't have thought 2012 was more than just a good story season.  Hey we snuck into the playoffs in a year we were supposed to be pretty bad, nice.

I don’t want to denigrate that 2012 team.    They had a huge amount of luck, but by the time they added Manny and McLouth they were a damned good team.   And 93 wins is nothing to sneeze at.   

Math tells you that most fan bases should enjoy a stretch of five years that includes three playoff appearances, a division title and no sub-.500 seasons.   But it shouldn’t stand out as the only oasis in a 23-year stretch.   
 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t want to denigrate that 2012 team.    They had a huge amount of luck, but by the time they added Manny and McLouth they were a damned good team.   And 93 wins is nothing to sneeze at.   

Math tells you that most fan bases should enjoy a stretch of five years that includes three playoff appearances, a division title and no sub-.500 seasons.   But it shouldn’t stand out as the only oasis in a 23-year stretch.   
 

I wasn't denigrating them.

I'm just saying a season like that isn't going to be as meaningful to a fanbase of a team that experiences an average or higher level of success.

 

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