Where are the undervalued guys from other organizations?

[Tony-OH]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea and if they say, we are using him a full time opener..2-3 innings.  Ok, I can live with that if you want to go that route.

The issue I have with that is that I don’t think our pen is strong enough yet to have an opener.

And I get that the younger starters may not be Ml starters but, going back to your point about development, we aren’t going to develop them to be ML starters if we just yo yo them back and forth.  They won’t develop if they barely get into games because they only pitch a few innings a week, are on the taxi squad, etc...

All of that needs to end.

The Orioles can clearly see that Lopez struggles once he gets past the 4th inning but yet he does very well early on.  You have a BP hole, see if he can fill it.  You know, for a fact, that he isn’t a Ml starter.  Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I just don’t get why they are trying to force something that isn’t there.

I'd piggy back Akin with Lopez. Lopez for 3-5 innings but never letting batters face him more than 2 PAs and then Akin for 1 time through the order, maybe up to three innings if he's throwing well. Then go to the pen.

[Tony-OH]

17 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I think you are viewing this too harshly. The Orioles don't really care about Lopez's future and they don't really care if he could give them a few more wins out of the bullpen right now. He's 28 year-old, dirt-cheap cannon fodder. They desperately need innings right now. Lopez would probably be significantly better out of the pen, like most starting pitchers, but the relatively slight increase in value means nothing to the Orioles. They just need a body to throw innings until someone "real" is ready to be brought up from the minors. If their current work with Lopez and the experience Lopez is gaining makes him a better bullpen piece next year and/or the year after, then double bonus. But I don't think they are misusing Lopez right now...they are prioritizing innings over maximizing individual value. I think there's a great chance they will change that approach as they start brining up more pitchers. But until then, I think Lopez is going to cover as many innings as they can squeeze out of him. 

Perhaps, but I personally think Lopez could have value as a reliever and that value could have been maximized and potentially used in a trade instead of just filling innings.

If you think he's just cannon fodder to fill innings this year, then I can understand your support for their use of him. But for me, everything should be about the future and if we could have maximized his value and then moved him for prospects that could one day help a competing Orioles team, that's his best value to the franchise.

There are plenty of fodder guys in AAA that could just fill innings including Konner Wade, Conner Greene, Spenser Watkins and Mickey Jannis.

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The fact that the Orioles continue to use Lopez as a starter is mind-numbing. His numbers scream at you that he's a one time through the order guy, maybe you can get through 2PAs if the stuff is good, but he should not face batters a 3rd time through, yet Hyde does it pretty often.

I thought Lopez is exactly the kind of guy you find and then change his role and you get value, but the Orioles are intent on keeping him in this misfit role.

The tricky thing is, he’s a tweener.   Who ever heard of a four inning pitcher?    But that’s what he is.   He has a 3.44 ERA through four innings.    So I could argue that the best way to use him is as a starter, or as a pitcher who follows an opener, under certain parameters:

1.   Default position is that he’ll pitch only four innings.   

2.  Exceptions can be made if the Orioles have a big lead or if López is pitching exceptionally well and pitch count is low.   But someone should be warming and López pulled at first sign of trouble.   
 

[ChuckS]

Every organization uses analytics now.  Hitting on these trash bin player types has and always will be to a certain extent, luck.  I don't dock the FO too much for these failed acquisitions.  It's not the way to build a winner. 

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

As much as I dislike him as a starter, Lopez could be an asset out of the pen.

He is someone we MAY be able to add to this list but right now, they have him in the wrong role.

I realize it is tangential to the main subject, but this is one of my big problems with Hyde.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Philip said:

I realize it is tangential to the main subject, but this is one of my big problems with Hyde.

This isn’t Hyde’s fault. 

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This isn’t Hyde’s fault. 

Phil is beating this Hyde horse to a pulp.

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Perhaps, but I personally think Lopez could have value as a reliever and that value could have been maximized and potentially used in a trade instead of just filling innings.

If you think he's just cannon fodder to fill innings this year, then I can understand your support for their use of him. But for me, everything should be about the future and if we could have maximized his value and then moved him for prospects that could one day help a competing Orioles team, that's his best value to the franchise.

There are plenty of fodder guys in AAA that could just fill innings including Konner Wade, Conner Greene, Spenser Watkins and Mickey Jannis.

I hear you. It's also possible the Orioles actually believe Lopez can be developed into a starter. Although a low probability outcome, the Orioles may think the value of the innings Lopez is throwing now plus the enhanced value he may have in the future as an effective starter outweighs any benefits they would get this year in performance or trade by using Lopez in the bullpen. Just thinking out loud. 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Phil is beating this Hyde horse to a pulp.

It helps tenderize the meat.

[UMDTerrapins]

47 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Hitting on these trash bin player types has and always will be to a certain extent, luck

We start hitting trash bins too, but we’d totally get caught. 

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

I think you are viewing this too harshly. The Orioles don't really care about Lopez's future and they don't really care if he could give them a few more wins out of the bullpen right now. He's 28 year-old, dirt-cheap cannon fodder. They desperately need innings right now. Lopez would probably be significantly better out of the pen, like most starting pitchers, but the relatively slight increase in value means nothing to the Orioles. They just need a body to throw innings until someone "real" is ready to be brought up from the minors. If their current work with Lopez and the experience Lopez is gaining makes him a better bullpen piece next year and/or the year after, then double bonus. But I don't think they are misusing Lopez right now...they are prioritizing innings over maximizing individual value. I think there's a great chance they will change that approach as they start brining up more pitchers. But until then, I think Lopez is going to cover as many innings as they can squeeze out of him. 

I’m not sure that’s a logical approach. If all you want is canon fodder, then why not use a canon fodder guy, instead of a guy who actually may have some genuine value if he is used in a different way?

If you just want to throw slop on the mound, then bring up Lowther, put Akin or Wells in the rotation and let them take their lumps.

But Lopez has shown the whole world he can be great for 60-65 pitches and then he drops off a Cliff. So why force him to throw 70+ pitches?

i’m happy to keep him as a starter and a piggyback roll, and I disagree that the bullpen is not good enough to sustain that.

if the current guys aren’t good, bring in other guys, but to say, I’m not going to fix this problem because you just create other problems is ridiculous. Every solution comes with its own set of problems, and you deal with the best set of problems.

[beantownrefugee]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Perhaps, but I personally think Lopez could have value as a reliever and that value could have been maximized and potentially used in a trade instead of just filling innings.

Lopez seems very well suited to being the long reliever after the "opener".  A team like TB may see that for a trade.  Which begs the question -- why are the O's not trying the opener strategy, with Lopez then pitching twice through the lineup?  Not much to lose in trying at this point.

[Can_of_corn]

21 minutes ago, beantownrefugee said:

Lopez seems very well suited to being the long reliever after the "opener".  A team like TB may see that for a trade.  Which begs the question -- why are the O's not trying the opener strategy, with Lopez then pitching twice through the lineup?  Not much to lose in trying at this point.

No idea.  I'm pretty disappointed that the O's aren't apparently trying anything innovative. 

Simply doing what worked for the Cubs and Astros isn't going to work know that everyone knows how it was done.  You have to find the next thing.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Can_of_corn

[Moose Milligan]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No idea.  I'm pretty disappointed that the O's aren't trying anything innovative. 

Simply doing what worked for the Cubs and Astros isn't going to work know that everyone knows how it was done.  You have to find the next thing.

What if all the things have been found?

And how do you know all we're doing is what the Cubs and Astros have done?  Maybe we're doing the next thing but it's still under wraps.  You don't know.

[Tony-OH]

BTW, I just want to emphasize here that I'm not anti-Elias at all. Just pointing out the facts that most of his attempts to bring in "undervalued" guys has not amounted to much.