Severino and DJ Stewart are hard to watch

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There is plenty of reason, especially if you believe his defense and his ability to receive the ball and call a game is a detriment to the young pitchers

Secondly, I don’t care how many at bats Adley has in the minors.  That’s irrelevant to his talent and what he is doing and how old he is.  He should be here.  He is a ML talent and would probably be a top 10 catcher in the league immediately.

I don't know how you can say that based on 130 ABs. I hope you're right but I also don't mind making him prove it over a larger a sample and maybe even improve a little bit in the process. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In my opinion, he was a better defender in the past.   Not saying he was particularly good, but I just feel he’s gone from below average to downright unacceptable this year.  He’s thrown out 17% of runners, he’s committed 6 passed balls in 41 starts and allowed 25 wild pitches.   Fangraphs’ framing metric has him 62nd of 64 catchers with 100+ innings.   

I can see that.  I understand why he was kept.  Trade value certainly was a part of it and for that little bit of money, you thought you would get a competent enough catcher.

But he has been a disaster and there is no reason to keep running him out there.  I still don’t get why you choose him over Sisco even if you think Sisco is never going to be anything.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know how you can say that based on 130 ABs. I hope you're right but I also don't mind making him prove it over a larger a sample and maybe even improve a little bit in the process. 

Well he has 262 At bats plus what he did in the camp last year plus his college career plus ST.

He has plenty of experience.  If they came out with a rule tomorrow that all players are FA after their 28 y/o season, he would be called up the next day.  
 

He isn’t down there to learn..he’s down there for service time.

I would call him up now but I’m good if they wait until the AS break too.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know how you can say that based on 130 ABs. I hope you're right but I also don't mind making him prove it over a larger a sample and maybe even improve a little bit in the process. 

The current tenth best catcher in the league, by rWAR is Jacob Stallings.  I think Adley has a decent chance to be better than Mr Stallings.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The current tenth best catcher in the league, by rWAR is Jacob Stallings.  I think Adley has a decent chance to be better than Mr Stallings.

You are probably right and I certainly hope so. But I also see a developmental case that he could be even better when he hits the big leagues with a full year vs AA or better. All the other 2019 draftees as far as I know are still in the minors except Vaughn who is hitting .230. Rutschman got a nice signing bonus and is doing quite well for himself regardless of when we bring him up. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

You are probably right and I certainly hope so. But I also see a developmental case that he could be even better when he hits the big leagues with a full year vs AA or better. All the other 2019 draftees as far as I know are still in the minors except Vaughn who is hitting .230. Rutschman got a nice signing bonus and is doing quite well for himself regardless of when we bring him up. 

Why do you think more time in the minors would be better for his development?

I understand with wanting to game his service time.  I think it's sketchy as all get out but I understand it.

But I don't understand why folks think he can advance his craft more fully in the minors.

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

You are probably right and I certainly hope so. But I also see a developmental case that he could be even better when he hits the big leagues with a full year vs AA or better. All the other 2019 draftees as far as I know are still in the minors except Vaughn who is hitting .230. Rutschman got a nice signing bonus and is doing quite well for himself regardless of when we bring him up. 

Vaughn started slow and has been better since..his wRC+ was/is slightly above average.  
 

And the other players in the draft weren’t regarded as the best college prospect in a decade and one of the best C prospects ever.  

[Aristotelian]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why do you think more time in the minors would be better for his development?

I understand with wanting to game his service time.  I think it's sketchy as all get out but I understand it.

But I don't understand why folks think he can advance his craft more fully in the minors.

I can think of lots of benefits. Follow natural progression to ensure they aren't overwhelmed. Work on things without pressure of games that count. Develop rapport with pitchers of his cohort. The track record of players skipping the minors is mixed.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

I can think of lots of benefits. Follow natural progression to ensure they aren't overwhelmed. Work on things without pressure of games that count. Develop rapport with pitchers of his cohort. The track record of players skipping the minors is mixed.

 

It isn't a natural progression, it's an artificial progression.  What's natural about it?

What have you seen or heard about Adley that makes you think he'll be overwhelmed?  If he is overwhelmed can't they just send him back down?

Guys that get to the majors at a younger age have superior careers.

[Gentile4]

Regarding Adley: Does he need more time in the minors? Probably not, but I'm torn on whether to maximize his service time in the club's favor since his presence will have little real impact on the team's success this year. That said, if we bring him up now or in the next few weeks, what's the plan? He's only been catching 2-3 times a week at Bowie, so do we suddenly expect he can catch 4-5 games a week since the 1B/DH slots are already taken? He's yet to catch back-to-back games that I can find, and I assume if we bring him up, he needs to play 4-5 games a week. What if he goes through a terrible slump? Do we send him back down?

Severino's a different story. I've been watching the O's avidly since the early 60s, and I don't think I've ever seen a catcher have this much difficulty simply catching a pitch that doesn't hit the dirt. Can you imagine Pedro trying catch Jannis' knuckleball if the Mick ever gets promoted? As bad as Sisco's played, I'd rather watch him than Pedro. I'd rather watch Cumberland. He couldn't be worse than Pedro. They're not going to eat ~$900k in salary, but he shouldn't be catching more the 2x/week.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

I can think of lots of benefits. Follow natural progression to ensure they aren't overwhelmed. Work on things without pressure of games that count. Develop rapport with pitchers of his cohort. The track record of players skipping the minors is mixed.

I think you hit all the cliches. Bravo!

[Camden_yardbird]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why do you think more time in the minors would be better for his development?

I understand with wanting to game his service time.  I think it's sketchy as all get out but I understand it.

But I don't understand why folks think he can advance his craft more fully in the minors.

Do you know what he can do in the minors?

He can catch Rodriguez, Baumann, and Hall.  He can learn their skills and strengths.  He can learn how they fail in a start or how they succeed.  He can see first hand if a fastball if off and learn how to fix it for that particular pitcher.  He can build a foundation for ushering these guys successfully into major league careers because he will get here first and they will have a harder time as pitchers making that jump.

So yes, he can learn more in the minors.

FWIW I also think there is value in those players learning to succeed together.

[interloper]

Stewart is a reserve guy/DH. Santander is injured and not playing up to his capability so we've been seeing a lot of DJ and he's not much fun when he's not on a homer tear. I think ideally you replace Stewart with Diaz if Diaz ever gets it together.

It's a problem that 3 of our outfielders are injury prone: Hays, Santander, and Diaz.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

27 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Do you know what he can do in the minors?

He can catch Rodriguez, Baumann, and Hall.  He can learn their skills and strengths.  He can learn how they fail in a start or how they succeed.  He can see first hand if a fastball if off and learn how to fix it for that particular pitcher.  He can build a foundation for ushering these guys successfully into major league careers because he will get here first and they will have a harder time as pitchers making that jump.

So yes, he can learn more in the minors.

FWIW I also think there is value in those players learning to succeed together.

This is one of the reasons why I'm ok with AR being in the minors right now. Much of the future pitching staff is with him in the minor leagues as opposed to the major leagues. But with the way AR is developing, he is probably ready now to play MLB and by next April it's going to be no doubt.