How do you feel our Rebuild is going? Grade the rebuild effort:

[HowAboutThat]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What are you talking about with this post?  What 2 high picks?

When Dan traded Ryan Webb and Brian Matusz, He included, in each trade, a compensatory draft pick. The trade was just a salary dump. The teams just wanted the draft pick. The Braves released Matusz immediately. They just wanted the pick. I don’t remember what happened to Webb, But each trade involved the only kind of draft pick that is tradable. And they weren’t high draft picks, I think the best was mid 30s and the other one was mid 70s 

[Aristotelian]

33 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The competitive balance picks picks that were traded away to dump the Matusz and ...I can't think of the other relievers name right now...trade was to the Dodgers.

Ryan Webb was one I think. Or was he for international money? 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Ryan Webb was one I think. Or was he for international money? 

That was the name, thanks.

[Yossarian]

The Orioles forfeiting their 2014 first round pick (would have been #17) with the signing of Ubaldo Jimenez and forfeiting their 2016 first round pick (would have been #15) with the signing of Yolando Gallardo didn't help speed this re-build along any.  I realize that was a previous management group, but those were not good decisions.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Yossarian said:

The Orioles forfeiting their 2014 first round pick (would have been #17) with the signing of Ubaldo Jimenez and forfeiting their 2016 first round pick (would have been #15) with the signing of Yolando Gallardo didn't help speed this re-build along any.  I realize that was a previous management group, but those were not good decisions.

This is the type of thing that really set us back and Buck was at the forefront of that imo.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

The Orioles forfeiting their 2014 first round pick (would have been #17) with the signing of Ubaldo Jimenez and forfeiting their 2016 first round pick (would have been #15) with the signing of Yolando Gallardo didn't help speed this re-build along any.  I realize that was a previous management group, but those were not good decisions.

Don't forget they would have picked up a first round pick if Davis had signed with someone else.

[Aristotelian]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Don't forget they would have picked up a first round pick if Davis had signed with someone else.

Trumbo too, right? 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Trumbo too, right? 

Yep.

But I don't think anyone would have forfeited a pick for Trumbo.

Just my opinion.

[UMDTerrapins]

I started the day fairly excited because I had a good feeling that Jahmai Jones would be recalled. He’s on fire, and the big club needs a lift and a need at 2B. But alas he’s not called up. Zimmerman, who’s been doing reasonably well lately and could factor into the back end of the rotation down the road, goes to the IL. Bradish could fill his start tonight on five days rest, so that would be a pick-me-up, right? No. Thomas Eshelman. I’m not saying Bradish was ready, but I am saying that this rebuild is starting to piss me off a little. 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

B-/C+
 

Elias has been tremendous in improving player development, fantastic. Another plus on improving international focus. Those 2 are huge.

As most of you know, strongly disliked Kjerstad pick, nothing to do with health. In a city where Best Player Available is a city mantra & your team is laughingly bad consistently, don’t get cute. 
 

What gems has he found in his tenure from the scrap heap? Alberto was awesome but let go for nothing, still miss that guy! Not super impressive here.

Rule 5 (not very important): loved the Martin pick! This year? Didn’t protect Pop, mistake. Took 2 pitchers not anywhere on the top 20 best available. Wells has been great, so kudos there!

If he takes BPA this year in the draft, I’d go B+.

[ThomasTomasz]

A from me.  I am extremely happy with the progress here.  I figured it would take every bit of the five years to get a competitor rolling here with the state of the entire organization.  

Elias completely gutted the front office and player development.  For the most part, guys were given one year to acclimate before major cuts happened.  This needed to happen.  For too many years, we hired people and kept them because they were former Orioles, not because they were necessarily the best person for the job.  We were laughably bad at developing pitchers.  Not developing more than two TORPs over the past 30 years pre-Elias was disgraceful, especially given how many top picks we invested in pitching, and how many of our former top prospects found success elsewhere.  

From the outside, Elias pledged to get us involved in the J2 market, something that Peter Angelos neglected for years.  Someone on here said 30% of players come from this market, so we were 30% behind the rest of the teams in acquiring talent.  This past season, we finally signed two guys in the top 30 list, and we will continue to make inroads but this is going to take a long time to get us on the level of other major players like the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers, and honestly we may never get there.  But, we are there now, and we are on the map.

Our analytics department is actually more than a handful of employees, and the stories being told by the players indicate that we are now in the 21st century as far as technology and helping players is concerned.  

Player development is also doing a better job in my opinion.  We’ve gotten career years out of Hanser Alberto, Jose Iglesias and Freddy Galvis just to name a few, turned Anthony Santander from an afterthought into a legit bat and glove, and this regime developed John Means into a legit ace pitcher.  We might not have a Justin Turner or Jose Bautista guy that we signed off the scrap heap that has turned into a star, but those guys come along fairly infrequently.  I’m plenty happy getting career offensive years from the guys I mentioned above.  We are also doing a much better job of working with and developing our prospects in the minor leagues, and aside from Keith Law, most people have a high opinion of the players in the system.  

The only area where I think we can do some improvement was with the draft.  I do think we got too cute trying to go under slot, especially in the Covid year, and it is also clear that our initial target was sniped from us.  It sadly looks like we might have a repeat of that, as Elias has done it a few times in Houston previously.  I think I need to see how this draft plays out before I truly grade this process.  

[btownoriole]

10 hours ago, ThomasTomasz said:

A from me.  I am extremely happy with the progress here.  I figured it would take every bit of the five years to get a competitor rolling here with the state of the entire organization.  

Elias completely gutted the front office and player development.  For the most part, guys were given one year to acclimate before major cuts happened.  This needed to happen.  For too many years, we hired people and kept them because they were former Orioles, not because they were necessarily the best person for the job.  We were laughably bad at developing pitchers.  Not developing more than two TORPs over the past 30 years pre-Elias was disgraceful, especially given how many top picks we invested in pitching, and how many of our former top prospects found success elsewhere.  

From the outside, Elias pledged to get us involved in the J2 market, something that Peter Angelos neglected for years.  Someone on here said 30% of players come from this market, so we were 30% behind the rest of the teams in acquiring talent.  This past season, we finally signed two guys in the top 30 list, and we will continue to make inroads but this is going to take a long time to get us on the level of other major players like the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers, and honestly we may never get there.  But, we are there now, and we are on the map.

Our analytics department is actually more than a handful of employees, and the stories being told by the players indicate that we are now in the 21st century as far as technology and helping players is concerned.  

Player development is also doing a better job in my opinion.  We’ve gotten career years out of Hanser Alberto, Jose Iglesias and Freddy Galvis just to name a few, turned Anthony Santander from an afterthought into a legit bat and glove, and this regime developed John Means into a legit ace pitcher.  We might not have a Justin Turner or Jose Bautista guy that we signed off the scrap heap that has turned into a star, but those guys come along fairly infrequently.  I’m plenty happy getting career offensive years from the guys I mentioned above.  We are also doing a much better job of working with and developing our prospects in the minor leagues, and aside from Keith Law, most people have a high opinion of the players in the system.  

The only area where I think we can do some improvement was with the draft.  I do think we got too cute trying to go under slot, especially in the Covid year, and it is also clear that our initial target was sniped from us.  It sadly looks like we might have a repeat of that, as Elias has done it a few times in Houston previously.  I think I need to see how this draft plays out before I truly grade this process.  

I pretty much agree with this assessment.  But it is hard to grade a rebuild in the middle of it as we won’t see the actual fruits of it for a couple of more years.

I do think about this one in comparison to McPhail’s sometimes.  At this stage in McPhail’s (3 years in) the O’s had the worst record in baseball and, honestly, things weren’t looking promising.  Then Buck was hired, they traded for JJ, Duquette became GM, Manny showed up, and they went on a terrific five year run.  I think this rebuild is more sustainable because they’re building a better infrastructure but I also think the division is more committed to building their own infrastructures than they were 11 years ago.

[Natty]

I feel our rebuild is going like this...

24 games under .500.

.329 winning pct.

Worst record in the AL. 

 

[ThomasTomasz]

7 hours ago, btownoriole said:

I pretty much agree with this assessment.  But it is hard to grade a rebuild in the middle of it as we won’t see the actual fruits of it for a couple of more years.

I do think about this one in comparison to McPhail’s sometimes.  At this stage in McPhail’s (3 years in) the O’s had the worst record in baseball and, honestly, things weren’t looking promising.  Then Buck was hired, they traded for JJ, Duquette became GM, Manny showed up, and they went on a terrific five year run.  I think this rebuild is more sustainable because they’re building a better infrastructure but I also think the division is more committed to building their own infrastructures than they were 11 years ago.

It is hard, but I am really grading off the infrastructure improvements, as well as getting into Latin America.  

I do think the talent is close to arriving.  I think this off-season we could see the team make a landmark FA signing, like the Nats with Jayson Werth or the Cubs with Jon Lester.  A move to bring veteran leadership in, to signify that it is time to begin competing again.  That could also be for the 2022 off-season, they could elect for another year of development.  

Either way, we’re getting closer, even though the results on the field are still terrible.  The thing about this rebuild versus others………I feel we are doing it the right, sustainable way.  We need a talent pipeline, and Elias is building that.  

[OriolesMagic83]

8 hours ago, Natty said:

I feel our rebuild is going like this...

24 games under .500.

.329 winning pct.

Worst record in the AL. 

 

Top 2 pick, here we come.