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I'm starting to think we are 4-5 years away from competing for real

kidrock

By kidrock
in Orioles Talk

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Spy Fox
Spy Fox

They do care— Vlad didn’t debut til April 26. Wander Franco didn’t debut til June 22. 

NelsonCruuuuuz
NelsonCruuuuuz

The timeframe is simple: when Peter passes and the team is sold to new local ownership. There you go. That’s the truth. Nothing else matters. The team will be minimal payroll until then. 

Pickles
Pickles

I think another thing worth pointing out is that rebuilds almost never go in linear fashion.  There seems to be a belief that we'll win 70 game and then 80 and then 90 and we'll be right in contention

maybenxtyr Hangout Veteran Council

maybenxtyr

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Things can change rapidly in sports. 
 

How we look right now has zero bearing on how things could look a year or 2 from now.  Many of these players won’t be here and if they are, it’s because they have turned themselves and their careers around.  
 

Ownership and upper management have not shown a willingness to promote at a rapid pace though. I understand they had a year off in the minors, but i just don't see Elias promoting, or opening next season with the best players available.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

Ownership and upper management have not shown a willingness to promote at a rapid pace though. I understand they had a year off in the minors, but i just don't see Elias promoting, or opening next season with the best players available.

He doesn’t, nor should he open the season with those guys because of service time, at least the main guys.(CBA pending of course)

But Adley will be up shortly after the season starts.  Grayson should be up by mid May-ish.  We will see what other arms emerge as potential BP arms or starters.  How does Baumann end the year?  Does he look like a viable candidate?

The only thing I think that is very fair to question is what the commitment level of ownership is coming off another abysmal season.  Are they ready to ramp up the spending and bring in real MLers this offseason? 

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

They do care— Vlad didn’t debut til April 26. Wander Franco didn’t debut til June 22. 

Bo Bichette June 29. Cavan Biggio May 24. 

Not sure whether Arozerena could have been held back. He had already made his debut for the Cardinals. Either way the Rays were competing when he was brought up, so not really a comparable situation. 

We all know the Orioles called up Manny early when we were in a playoff race. I think it was worth it but 2012 cost us another year of Manny and/or the prospects he could have brought back with an extra year of service time.

The narrative that only the Orioles care about service time is just flat out false.  

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

Posted
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5 minutes ago, Pushmonkey said:

But they brought them up before they were 26 years old. 

Just like the O's will do with Adley and Gray Rod and other elite prospects.

Even Vlad Jr who was signed as an international free agent at 16 took until age 20 to make his debut.    When we sign a kid at 16 who can play like that then I think the comparisons will be valid.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
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40 minutes ago, Pushmonkey said:

I’m so tired of service time. Did the Jays care about service time.  No. Do the rays care. No. 

As has been shown, you are dead wrong on this.  

 

Don't get me wrong, Adley should have been here for the last 2 months but since they didn't do it, they would be morons if they didn't wait 3 weeks next year and get the extra year.

Of course, if the CBA rules change and they can't "game the system" for that extra year, Adley obviously should be here on OD.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Pushmonkey said:

Is Adley and Grod better than any player on the team right now?  Field the team with the best players. 

That's fine...As I said, Adley should have been up for the last 2 months and I think a case can be made that GROd should have been here as well.

But they aren't and since they aren't, you get that extra year of service time because the current system allows it.

Once you get to that point, they should be up.

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LookinUp Hangout Grand Counsel

LookinUp

Posted
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31 minutes ago, Pushmonkey said:

Is Adley and Grod better than any player on the team right now?  Field the team with the best players. 

I know it sucks to lose, but if we go through a rebuild and then short circuit it because of emotion then it really would make me question Elias' approach. I don't love this at all, but at least I understand it. He's trying to build the farm, get the maximum years out of the new guys AND time the arrival of guys together to improve our odds.

That means we wait and that stinks. But at least it's a direction.

We have no idea what ownership will do, but the Elias part re: building the farm is clear as day to me.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Pushmonkey said:

Is Adley and Grod better than any player on the team right now?  Field the team with the best players. 

And lose a year of service time? Angelos should sue Elias for GM malpractice if he does that.

By the way, Vlad Jr. also had twice as many minor league AB's before being promoted as Rutschman has now. From that standpoint assuming Rutschman is promoted a few weeks into April he will be ahead of schedule! 

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UMDTerrapins Hangout Veteran Council

UMDTerrapins

Posted
Posted

It is what it is. And if I was Elias, working under the current rules, I wouldn't have brought them up this year either. 

What I'm thinking about is spring training 2022, with the talent upgrades and the excitement of the imminent debuts of some really exciting prospects. Add in healthy Santander/Hays, and hopefully a few good offseason additions, I can see us having a much better mindset than we do right now. We're in the last month of the most painful parts of a rebuild. 

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