Jump to content

Tim Dierkes: Orioles should trade John Means


waynebug

Recommended Posts

He thinks the return would be about what the Mariners got for Paxton or the Twins got for Jose Berrios. A top 40 overall prospect.

The issue with Means is his shoulder issues in 2019 and this year.  And his lower strikeout numbers.

Whatever they do GET MORE DOMINICANS THROWN IN !!!!

This was a subscriber's only mailbag, not on the regular MLB Trade Rumors site.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, waynebug said:

He thinks the return would be about what the Mariners got for Paxton or the Twins got for Jose Berrios. A top 40 overall prospect.

The issue with Means is his shoulder issues in 2019 and this year.  And his lower strikeout numbers.

Whatever they do GET MORE DOMINICANS THROWN IN !!!!

 

He had a tired shoulder last year as well didn't he?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Always have next year's version of Matt Harvey and Felix Hernandez.

Yeah, but it is nice to have one guy that you know you can count on. I wouldn't seek a trade for Means until they reach the point that they know Baumann, Grayson, and/or DL Hall can be that type of guy.

I think Lowther, Akin, Kremer, Wells, Zimmermann, and Ellis will all be competing for spots 2-5 in the rotation in spring training along with next year's version of Matt Harvey and Felix Hernandez.

Would be nice if Baumann, Grayson and Hall could all be ready by the All Star Break. Bradish and Drew Rom could be in the conversation by then, too. Kind of a lost year for Kevin Smith, but he could bounce back and be in the conversation as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm torn on this idea.

On one hand, I like the idea of continuing to stock the system.  

On the other hand, I think Means being the 2nd or 3rd guy in the rotation is good.  At some point you gotta keep guys to build around.  

Also, you are still selling tickets for Major League prices. You need to have a few actual Major Leaguers on your roster.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

With the worst pitching staff in MLB - probably by a wide margin - I think it's foolish to consider going after a Means trade.  Obviously, nobody's untouchable, but it'd take an offer of clearly more than he's worth to make me consider it.  

I saw this today on r/baseball.

I was surprised.

 

k6mxyhfu4un71.jpg?width=626&format=pjpg&

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's also the issue that if you extend him you're buying into his age 32 season.

Dierkes is the owner and creator of MLB Trade Rumors.  He gets 100s of thousands of views every day.

Today's Mailbag was for subscribers only.  I think I pay $3 a month.

"Quint" asked  would he trade Means and what could he expect to get in return.   He mentioned outfielder Robert Hassell of the Padres currently the #37 prospect in somebody's eyes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope the Means/Mullins/Santander player batch last to become part of something good here, but grant its an open question.

A comp I've heard for Orioles John Means is Tigers Matthew Boyd from circa 2018-2019.   Detroit opted to hold, a choice generally looking like an inaccuracy.   I doubt Means yet is where Boyd was then as he completed two full MLB seasons, a badge unearned so far by our guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Orioles are trying to build a competitive ballclub against heavy odds -- division rivals with more revenues (other than TB) and lots of talent, virtually no infusion of ML-ready international talent for a few more years, tightwad owners (who IMO won't spend much on payroll because they're waiting to sell the team), a terrible reputation as baseball's laughingstock or close to it, and years of eroding the team's fan base. Building a starting pitching staff brings the added challenge of young pitchers gaining confidence when they're playing most of their games in parks where routine fly balls can become home runs.

It's been a slow process. The Orioles now have six to eight guys who are bona fide major leaguers. (It's certainly possible to argue about how many and about who they are, but I think most would agree that number is in the neighborhood.) To be successful, they'll need at least three times that many, and for two or three of those guys to emerge as stars. If they're like every other good team I've seen, a competitive Orioles team will be a mix of young players and veterans.

It seems to me that when a team in the Orioles' woeful position finds a guy, out of its MiL system or via trade/free agency/Rule 5, who establishes himself as a good major leaguer and isn't blocking one of the team's top talents, the plan should be to keep him. Sure, if somebody makes a trade proposal that blows you away and will give you several quality ML players, or if you're confident that your player is, say, "an old 26," you should consider it. But the bottom line -- without extraordinary opportunities or risks that the other side in a trade doesn't know or appreciate -- should be to keep Mullins so you know you've got a real good player in CF for a few years and Means so you know you've got at least one competent starting pitcher.

If the Orioles are going to trade from a limited supply of established major leaguers, they should be seeking guys who also are proven ML players or are very close to ready for the majors. Continually trading the team's best players for prospects, no matter how good they are, will just prolong the  rebuilding process. It might be fine with Elias for him to say two years from now, with the Orioles losing 90 games, "We need to be patient," and have the Orioles' remaining fans say that you can't judge Elias's rebuilding plan yet because it's still early in the process and some highly-rated prospects are almost ready for promotion to the the Orioles. I think that would be fine with present ownership as long as they're maintaining a low payroll and taking out a decent profit. That wouldn't be fine with me. 

 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • Yeah the amenities are pretty outdated at the yard and they seem to do nothing year over year to improve them. The touchscreens have been banged on to death to the point they barely function, so you can't accurately fill out your order at the kiosks, and they don't have a way for the people behind the counter to ring you up at many of the food places. The sound is low to non-existent in certain sections of the club level, like around 218. Seems like there should be speakers that reach there but they might have been damaged by rain, etc. and they are too lazy to fix them. If you go to a game that's even slightly busy, you will wait forever to get into the bathroom, and the sink will be an absolute mess with no soap or paper towels. It's even worse on the club level where they have one sink that's right by the door. Nearby businesses don't care, either. The Hilton parking garage reeks of decay, pot and human waste. They don't turn on the air circulation fans, even if cars are waiting for an hour and a half to exit from P3, filling up the air with carbon monoxide. They only let you enter the stadium with one 20 oz bottle of water. It's so expensive to buy a drink or water in the stadium, but with all the salty food, 20 oz of water isn't enough, especially on a hot day. Vegetarian food options are poor to none, other than things like chips, fries, hot pretzels and the occasional pizza. Vida Taco is better, but at an inconvenient location for many seats. The doors on the club level are not accessible. They're anti-accessible. Big, heavy doors you have to go through to get to/from the escalators, and big, heavy doors to get to your seats, none of them automatic (or even with the option to be automatic with a button press). Makes it hard to carry food out to your seats even if not handicapped. The furniture in the lounges on the club level seem designed to allow as few people as possible to sit down. Not great when we have so many rain delays during the season. Should put more, smaller chairs in and allow more of the club level ticket holders to have a seat while waiting for thunderstorms to pass. They keep a lot of the entrance/exit gates closed except for playoff/sellout games, which means people have to slowly "mooooo" all the way down Eutaw St to get to parking. They are too cheap to staff all the gates, so they make people exit by the warehouse, even though it would be a lot more convenient for many fans to open all the gates. Taking Light Rail would be super convenient, except that if there's at least 20k fans in attendance, it's common to have to wait 90-120 minutes to be able to board a non-full train heading toward Glen Burnie. A few trains might come by, but they are already full, or fill up fast when folks walk up to the Convention Center stop to pre-empt the folks trying to board at Camden Station. None of the garages in the area are set up to require pre-payment on entry (reservation, or give them your card / digital payment at the entrance till). If they were, emptying out the garage would be very quick, as they wouldn't need to ticket anyone on the way out: if you can't get in without paying, you can always just leave without having to stop and scan your phone or put a ticket in the machine. They shut down the Sports Legends Museum at Camden Station in 2015 because the Maryland Stadium Authority was too greedy. That place was a fun distraction if you were in the area when a game wasn't about to start, like if you show up super early on Opening Day or a playoff day. Superbook's restaurant on Eutaw is a huge downgrade from Dempsey's in terms of menu and service quality. Dempsey's used to be well-staffed, you could reserve a table online, and they had all kinds of great selection for every diet. Superbook seems like just another bar serving the same swill that the rest of the park serves, with extremely minimal and low-quality food. For that matter, most of the food at the stadium is very low quality these days. A lot of things we used to love are made to a lower standard now if they are served at all. These are gripes about the stadium and the area that haven't changed my entire adult life. Going to an O's game requires one to tolerate many small inconveniences and several major inconveniences, any number of which could easily be fixed by the relevant authorities if they gave a damn about the people who pay to come see the team play. You would think a mid-market team would be able to afford to invest in the fan experience. You would think the city and partnering organizations like garages, the Stadium Authority and MTA would at least try to do their part to make the experience enjoyable and free of kinks. You would think they would put some thought into handling the "growing pains" of the fanbase due to recent renewed interest after the dark years. Instead, all we get is the same indifference and the same annoyances year in and year out. The whole area is overdue for a revamp. Not sure if $600 mil will get it done, but at least it's a start. Hopefully they can start to patch up some of the many holes in the fan experience. If you're not going to invest in Burnes, at least make it so paying customers have an easier, more enjoyable time getting to/from the stadium and having some food while we're there.
    • Elias has only been in rebuild mode with the O's so there's not much to speculate on there.  Houston, where he spent his formative years, doesn't seem to like to be on the hook for more than a couple of big long-term contracts at any given time.  I can see that as being Elias' choice as well, albeit with a lower overall cost - Houston runs a big payroll.  But it's all guesswork.  I really don't know. If Elias takes the 2025 payroll to $150 million it will creep up to $200 million or so by 2028 just from keeping the core together.  That's where I start to wonder about sustainability due to market size, economic forces, etc., etc., etc... If it were up to me, I would add a couple of free agents this offseason even if the contracts were longer than ideal and be conservative about extensions elsewhere until the prospects establish themselves a little better.  I think there's a competitive opportunity that the team is already into that's worth exploiting. I think ownership is very happy to have Elias on board and they're not inclined to force him to do anything.  I also think Rubenstein's demonstrated business prowess is great enough to assume that he has had plenty enough time to come to a mutual understanding with Elias as to goals.
    • We need a RH O’hearn…in addition to Westburg. At least 3 batters that will push up the pitch count and cause damage in the top 5 of the lineup.
    • Boy,  that Jackson Merrill is a good young player that is playing his best ball down the season stretch and in the playoffs.   He's only 21.  I guess some young guys are able to play up to the pressure.   Who could have guessed that?
    • I’m aware.   You are arguing something im Not.
    • What agreement? The agreement you are talking about happened as a result of the move.  The MASN agreement would not have existed if Angelos had gone to court to block the move.
    • I’m saying the Os had an agreement with MLB and that should have held up.  Been pretty clear about that. 
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...