MLB CBA/Labor Dispute Thread

[Sports Guy]

They paid out for Ubaldo and Cobb.  As long as this ownership is here, that’s the most you will see them spend on a pitcher and I’m thinking that they won’t even go to that level since both of those deals backfired.

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They paid out for Ubaldo and Cobb.  As long as this ownership is here, that’s the most you will see them spend on a pitcher and I’m thinking that they won’t even go to that level since both of those deals backfired.

The question with both Ublado and Cobb is how much interest existed from other teams?

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The question with both Ublado and Cobb is how much interest existed from other teams?

 

I don’t think that matters to the overall point of the Orioles have been willing to spend X amount on a pitcher..and then ask, would they do it again?

Even if they bid against themselves, they still did the deal and paid out the money.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:07 PM, Can_of_corn said:

The question with both Ublado and Cobb is how much interest existed from other teams?

 

Ubaldo was only 2 years removed from a year he almost ran away with the Cy Young award in Colorado.  But then he reverted to bad Ubaldo for the second half.  If I remember right he had 14 wins at the All Star break and an ERA barely over 1.  I don't believe teams saw him as an ace, but the potential seemed to  be there.

[Can_of_corn]

5 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Ubaldo was only 2 years removed from a year he almost ran away with the Cy Young award in Colorado.  But then he reverted to bad Ubaldo for the second half.  If I remember right he had 14 wins at the All Star break and an ERA barely over 1.  I don't believe teams saw him as an ace, but the potential seemed to  be there.

Do you recall reports of other teams having strong interest?

[gold21030]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you recall reports of other teams having strong interest?

Wasn't Toronto very interested in Ubaldo before we signed him?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, gold21030 said:

Wasn't Toronto very interested in Ubaldo before we signed him?

I don't recall it.  It's possible.

[spiritof66]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:07 PM, Can_of_corn said:

The question with both Ublado and Cobb is how much interest existed from other teams?

 

I find it hard to evaluate the history of the Orioles' signing (or not signing) free-agent starting pitchers because the facts are so hard to get hold of. In most cases, we don't know what teams other than the winning bidder, and maybe one or two others, tried to sign guys or how much they were wiling to pay. I do think though, that it will be challenging for the Orioles to sign free agent pitchers in whom there's lots of interest, even if ownership is willing to spend competitively.

There probably will be free agent pitchers -- those who want to build their stats for another run at free agency, or those who lack (or whose agents' lack) confidence that they can keep fly balls inside Camden Yards, Fenway and Yankee Mausoleum -- who would prefer to sign elsewhere.

And I see an increasing tendency among free agents, especially veterans looking for their last big contract, to prefer teams with a strong chance to make it to the post-season -- teams that already are contending or have a solid core of young talent and a willingness and ability to bring in additional high-priced veterans. I think the baseball world acknowledges that the Orioles are moving (albeit real slowly) in the right direction, but if players and agents were to list MLB teams in the order of their likelihood of winning a division championship in the next four years, the Orioles probably would be in the bottom half-dozen of most lists. Uncertainty as to whether current ownership is able and willing to spend to build a winning team, the questions about the future of the ownership, and the history of Peter Angelos's clownish ownership will make it hard to convince free agents who have other options that they can help take the Orioles to a World Series. 

[spiritof66]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:48 PM, BohKnowsBmore said:

 

I think one of the complicating factors is that owners are probably better-positioned to recover from any sustained, but temporary downturn than the players are. League revenues dipping for a five-year period, for example, provides a material drag on lifetime earnings of the majority of current players (basically everyone who doesn't already have a long-term mega deal). Owners are generally thinking about things closer to a ten-year time horizon, so if they think for whatever reason that any negative impact would be temporary even lasting several years, they have less reason to fear such an outcome than the players side.

Doesn't mean I'm happy about it, but it's at least somewhat rational.

I don't know how well-positioned the owners are to withstand an economic downturn, but it's pretty clear that they, as a group, think it's critical (a) to maintain and improve each team's ability to do that, and to avoid the financial distress or bankruptcy of every team in the event revenues are reduced or cut off, and (b) to have solidarity among owners who are "team players" as they negotiate with the union and take other steps to protect their profits and the value of their franchises. The pandemic focused MLB on the importance of those factors, and the upcoming CBA negotiations are very likely to drive it home still further.

That's why I believe it's probable that, when Peter Angelos is gone, the other owners, with a strong push from the Commissioner, will view that as an opportunity to get the Orioles out of the hands of the Angelos family, and a transfer of his controlling interest in the Orioles to his widow or to one or both of his sons will not get the majority vote of the owners that's required for approval of a new owner. The owners wouldn't be required to act reasonably in voting against approval, but they would have plenty of reasons, including the financial weakness of the franchise, the surviving Angeloses' lack of business experience or success, the bleak on-field and off-field history of the Angelos regime, the team's poor recent attendance, and the refusal to abide by the RSDC's decisions in the MASN arbitration. The owners might agree to some short-term transfer within the family to permit an orderly sale, but I wouldn't expect them to permit another generation of Angeloses to plague them.

[Porky]

On 10/31/2021 at 5:31 AM, Can_of_corn said:

Do you recall reports of other teams having strong interest?

Roch reported the O's had to include a fourth year in the deal, due to strong interest from other AL East teams.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/02/orioles-to-sign-ubaldo-jimenez.html

[scOtt]

On 10/29/2021 at 2:53 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

All the minor league players are soon-to-be union members, almost all believing that they will shortly be benefiting from the MLBPA.  The experience of 1994-95 was that very, very few of them would cross the picket lines.  The strikebreakers from that era were indy leaguers and nondrafted players.  Way, way, way down in the player pool.  That's the main reason they never went ahead with regular season replacement player games, it was basically rookie league ball masquerading as the Majors.  This isn't the NFL, where players 90% as good as the regulars get released at the end of training camp and are free to be strike breakers.

I guess it would be cool if the "Orioles" won the World Series with a team 75% as good as the York Revolution.

I that a pending fact? Or dependent on the new CBA?

 

Or just because many MiLers will be coming to the majors soon...

[DrungoHazewood]

On 11/2/2021 at 1:14 PM, scOtt said:

I that a pending fact? Or dependent on the new CBA?

 

Or just because many MiLers will be coming to the majors soon...

They'll be coming to the majors soon.  And the vast majority thinks that's going to be them, so if they cross the picket lines they'll be pariahs when they make it.

[Can_of_corn]

23 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They'll be coming to the majors soon.  And the vast majority thinks that's going to be them, so if they cross the picket lines they'll be pariahs when they make it.

Did it hurt Jamie Walker or Kevin Millar?

[OriolesMagic83]

I thought Scott Erickson had the biggest contract in O's history for a pitcher.  I was surprised when I looked it up and it was "only" $32 million.

Which contract was bigger, Ubaldo or Cobb?

 

[foxfield]

On 10/27/2021 at 1:50 PM, Tony-OH said:

Name one starting free agent pitcher that came here when they had an equal or close offer and then performed well and parlayed that into a bigger contract either here or else where! 

I'll wait.

While I do think previous administrations, probably limited by the owner in the past, have been reluctant to sign high priced starting pitching, I don't think you can ignore the Division concerns, especially when dealing with an unbalanced schedule and hitter friendly stadiums in the AL East. 

Kevin Brown definitely did this, as noted earlier.  And I think while in general your comment is on point, it is on point more because of ownerships desire to avoid FA markets, especially for pitchers.  In fact it is worth pointing out that Brown signed with the Orioles after the last work stoppage and had a 1 year deal.  After a tenure with the Marlins and then Padres, he became the first $100,000,000 man in baseball with a 7 year deal in LA with the Dodgers.

The Orioles just don't move in these markets under Angelos.  This has less to do pitchers avoiding competing with the Yankees, Red Sox or Rays and Jays or even Camden Yards.  It's almost entirely because, the Orioles hate spending money on those guys who play once a week.  And when they do it is not at the top of the market.  Hell Angelos couldn't even be bothered to keep an Ace in Mussina.

Fortunately, you did not say Name 2.  Cause I can't.  Lol.