Elias Q&A with Meoli

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

What? The Orioles can't hand out mid-sized contract like the Tigers and White Sox that could help the team, because of the division they are in? I honestly do not get that argument at all.  They should aspire to be as good as they can be and make smart baseball decisions, regardless of what division they are in. 

Also, why can't the Orioles be like the Jays?  Are the Jays/Toronto a significantly wealthier franchise?

The Jays have a significantly larger population base to draw from.

[wildcard]

48 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Tampa just signed a player to a 12/225M deal.  Guess we can throw out the idea that Tampa won’t spend on a big contract.

Let's see the yearly distribution.  That will tell when they plan to trade him.

 

[wildcard]

53 minutes ago, Porky said:

St. Louis and Baltimore are similar cities - and I think the Cardinals are probably the aspirational example to where we could see the Orioles go. An organization that relies on its farm system for the most part, but has the payroll capacity to retain its Molinas and Wainwrights, and afford an outside-sourced star or two.

Which would be amazing, the Cardinals have two World Series Championships and only one losing season since 2000. Pretty impressive.

There is very little similarities between the Cards and O's drawing capability.  The Cards have a very large drawing area outside of St Louis.   And a loyal base that travels distances to see the Cards.   The O's are squeezed between Washington and Philadelphia and the former O's fans in the Washington are far from loyal to the O's.   (Except for Frobby and probably a few others.)

[Yardball85]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

There is very little similarities between the Cards and O's drawing capability.  The Cards have a very large drawing area outside of St Louis.   And a loyal base that travels distances to see the Cards.   The O's are squeezed between Washington and Philadelphia and the former O's fans in the Washington are far from loyal to the O's.   (Except for Frobby and probably a few others.)

A midwest team like the Cardinals is also "squeezed" between teams.  Cubs, White Sox, Brewers, even Royals.  I lived in the Midwest.  I can tell you that a lot of people from Missouri are Cubs fans.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

A midwest team like the Cardinals is also "squeezed" between teams.  Cubs, White Sox, Brewers, even Royals.  I lived in the Midwest.  I can tell you that a lot of people from Missouri are Cubs fans.

Before Covid in 2019 the Cards drew 3.48m fans.  2nd in all of baseball.   They are not squeezed much.

[Aristotelian]

30 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

 

Also, why can't the Orioles be like the Jays?  Are the Jays/Toronto a significantly wealthier franchise?

2019 revenues:

Orioles: $256M

Rays: $264M

Blue Jays: $265M

Red Sox:

[Yardball85]

Just now, wildcard said:

Before Covid in 2019 the Cards drew 3.48m fans.  2nd in all of baseball.   They are not squeezed much.

They draw well because of the Cardinals positive brand, sure, but they also draw well because they are well run and consistently good.  

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

There is very little similarities between the Cards and O's drawing capability.  The Cards have a very large drawing area outside of St Louis.   And a loyal base that travels distances to see the Cards.   The O's are squeezed between Washington and Philadelphia and the former O's fans in the Washington are far from loyal to the O's.   (Except for Frobby and probably a few others.)

Attendance counts for a small % of revenue.

[Aristotelian]

Sorry, got cut off.

Red Sox $519M

Yankees $683M

So yeah, Toronto I would say is significantly wealthier but not orders of magnitude wealthier. Sox and Yankees are in their own league. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Sorry, got cut off.

Red Sox $519M

Yankees $683M

So yeah, Toronto I would say is significantly wealthier but not orders of magnitude wealthier. Sox and Yankees are in their own league. 

10M in revenue is nothing and can easily be made up if you are winning.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

They draw well because of the Cardinals positive brand, sure, but they also draw well because they are well run and consistently good.  

Over a long time.  Like I said,  very little similarity.

[Yardball85]

 

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Over a long time.  Like I said,  very little similarity.

My point is, the Orioles could draw similarly to the Cardinals if they are run better.  The cities are similar, which was the original point being made. 

[Porky]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

There is very little similarities between the Cards and O's drawing capability.  The Cards have a very large drawing area outside of St Louis.   And a loyal base that travels distances to see the Cards.   The O's are squeezed between Washington and Philadelphia and the former O's fans in the Washington are far from loyal to the O's.   (Except for Frobby and probably a few others.)

The Baltimore Metro Area has 2,844,510 people and the St. Louis Metro Area has 2,820,253. Both have similar TV markets. Both share their market with only one other professional team from the big four sports. Both are squeezed by other franchises - the O's have the Nats and Phillies; the Cardinals have the Cubs and Royals. In 2017, the last time the Orioles tried to compete, the Cardinals had a payroll of $152m and the Orioles had a payroll of $163m. Outside of baseball, they're also both cities that have struggled in the 21st Century in many of the same ways.

The difference between the Cardinals and Orioles has nothing to do with their geographic luck. It has everything to do with the fact the Cardinals have been one of the best run organizations in MLB for the past 20 years, and the Orioles have been one of the worst.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

 

My point is, the Orioles could draw similarly to the Cardinals if they are run better.  The cities are similar, which was the original point being made. 

14 years of losing did not help which was about poor management. But I don't agree that that the drawing areas is similar to start with.  Not since the Nats arrived.

[sportsfan8703]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

And what happens if guys don’t move forward enough in 2022?  What happens if some injuries occur?  Do we wait yet another year until we start trying to be good?

Its a moronic strategy but it’s not his fault.  He was just dealt the worst ownership hand.

Well that’s why we’ve been going with our underslot early draft theory. If guys don’t perform(which will happen) then you have guys like Kjerstad, Willems, and Baumler, that all got big money and either didn’t play much or were hurt. That’s including the draft. 
 

Ive had my faults with Elias but look how small they are… he didn’t protect Pop, and he didn’t trade Paul Fry a month earlier. We have the number one system in baseball. 
 

Look at the Gunnar, Stowers, and Mayo draft picks. Look at the slick trades he’s pulled off for guys that weren’t just AAA throw ins.