I'm already over this offseason.

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

Sounds like a decent chance Rodon and Kikuchi are coming off the market tonight.

Down market, $4mm was sufficient to get Dylan Bundy (Twins) and see if anything is left.

If Rodon/Kikuchi do go, setting aside Kershaw's uncertain health, that would leave only Tyler Anderson and Zack Greinke from ESPN McDaniel's Top 50, and they were at the very end of the list.

I guess at that point John Means would near the top of the list of 2022 rotation options for anyone still looking to add.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

3B Johan Camargo to the Phillies for $1.4 million. That's, like, 2.5 times the league minimum, I was clearly crazy to ever think he might be in the Orioles price range.

I mean, just imagine how expensive he could get if he plays well enough to be retained for the multiple years of team control he still has!

[Moose Milligan]

10 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

But you make him turn it down.  If he says no, so be it.  But you make him turn down the extra 30M. 

I figured you'd be having an epic meltdown that Stroman went for a very friendly deal that the Orioles could have done.  

[Aristotelian]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

But you make him turn it down.  If he says no, so be it.  But you make him turn down the extra 30M. 

Of course it is possible that offer was made and turned down. Or that his agent simply never picked up the phone to talk to us. I would certainly have welcomed a Stroman signing for more years and dollars than he got. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Of course it is possible that offer was made and turned down. Or that his agent simply never picked up the phone to talk to us. I would certainly have welcomed a Stroman signing for more years and dollars than he got. 

Sure it’s possible..but I’m pretty sure we would have heard about it.

[Porky]

14 hours ago, Frobby said:

I know you’re just instigating here, but 91 losses isn’t 115.   Not close.   That’s what Elias walked into.   And he didn’t really do a teardown; that had been done at the trade deadline before he arrived.   You could say he finished off the teardown, but all the really choice assets had been dealt already.   

It will be interesting to see where the Cubs go from here.   
 

I think the narrative that Elias walked into some kind of wasteland is hyperbole. The farm system was far better than advertised and the major league roster had respectable veterans on it. 

Ownership wanted to do a tanking strategy and they hired Elias because he had the resumé to do it from his time with the Astros. If the Angelos sons wanted to go with a different strategy, they would have hired someone else. Elias is here to tank, plain and simple.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Porky said:

I think the narrative that Elias walked into some kind of wasteland is hyperbole. The farm system was far better than advertised and the major league roster had respectable veterans on it. 

Ownership wanted to do a tanking strategy and they hired Elias because he had the resumé to do it from his time with the Astros. If the Angelos sons wanted to go with a different strategy, they would have hired someone else. Elias is here to tank, plain and simple.

Couldn’t disagree with you more.   The roster was horrible.  They won 47 games and, of course, played even worse than that after trading Manny, Schoop, Gausman, Britton etc.   That team was bound to be awful for the next few years no matter what.   

As to the farm system, I agree it was a bit underrated, but (1) it was still a below average system, and (2) the best talent in it was far away from the majors.   

And, of course, we had zero international talent in the pipeline and didn’t even have a pipeline built.

My point here is limited.   I am simply saying Elias wasn’t in a situation where he had a decision to make whether to do a teardown vs. a patch job.   The teardown was 90% complete when he arrived.   Patching wasn’t an option.   

The issue of what to do this offseason is a separate question.  


 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Couldn’t disagree with you more.   The roster was horrible.  They won 47 games and, of course, played even worse than that after trading Manny, Schoop, Gausman, Britton etc.   That team was bound to be awful for the next few years no matter what.   

As to the farm system, I agree it was a bit underrated, but (1) it was still a below average system, and (2) the best talent in it was far away from the majors.   

And, of course, we had zero international talent in the pipeline and didn’t even have a pipeline built.

My point here is limited.   I am simply saying Elias wasn’t in a situation where he had a decision to make whether to do a teardown vs. a patch job.   The teardown was 90% complete when he arrived.   Patching wasn’t an option.   

The issue of what to do this offseason is a separate question.  


 

The bottom line is that the cupboard wasn’t bare and he was able to walk into the highest draft pool and highest picks available.  
 

I agree with Porky that the narrative surrounding Elias coming into the system is a bit overstated.

The way people talk about it, you would think the Orioles had nothing here.  That’s not true.

[sportsfan8703]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Couldn’t disagree with you more.   The roster was horrible.  They won 47 games and, of course, played even worse than that after trading Manny, Schoop, Gausman, Britton etc.   That team was bound to be awful for the next few years no matter what.   

As to the farm system, I agree it was a bit underrated, but (1) it was still a below average system, and (2) the best talent in it was far away from the majors.   

And, of course, we had zero international talent in the pipeline and didn’t even have a pipeline built.

My point here is limited.   I am simply saying Elias wasn’t in a situation where he had a decision to make whether to do a teardown vs. a patch job.   The teardown was 90% complete when he arrived.   Patching wasn’t an option.   

The issue of what to do this offseason is a separate question.  


 

Also Elias was hired late his first offseason. So that first offseason was kind of a waste because he didn’t even have a chance to bring in his people. Looks like he nailed that first draft without a lot of his people. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The bottom line is that the cupboard wasn’t bare and he was able to walk into the highest draft pool and highest picks available.  
 

I agree with Porky that the narrative surrounding Elias coming into the system is a bit overstated.

The way people talk about it, you would think the Orioles had nothing here.  That’s not true.

I also think Bundy was an underrated chip that Elias didn't get a lot for.

Bradish is the O's 17th ranked prospect (OH list) with the other three not making the top 30.

Two years of Bundy should have brought back more.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Also Elias was hired late his first offseason. So that first offseason was kind of a waste because he didn’t even have a chance to bring in his people. Looks like he nailed that first draft without a lot of his people. 

You or I could have nailed the draft simply by picking Adley.

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The bottom line is that the cupboard wasn’t bare and he was able to walk into the highest draft pool and highest picks available.  
 

I agree with Porky that the narrative surrounding Elias coming into the system is a bit overstated.

The way people talk about it, you would think the Orioles had nothing here.  That’s not true.

I don’t know. The cupboard was pretty bare. Which players MLB/MILB were around then?  Mountcastle, Means, Mullins, Hays, Stewart, Givens, Castro, Cashner, Cobb, and Chris Davis?  Let’s not forget the Calvary 2.0 of Akin, Lowther, Baumann, etc…, too depressing to name anymore of those pitchers. 
 

That’s pretty darn bare. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I don’t know. The cupboard was pretty bare. Which players MLB/MILB were around then?  Mountcastle, Means, Mullins, Hays, Stewart, Givens, Castro, Cashner, Cobb, and Chris Davis?  Let’s not forget the Calvary 2.0 of Akin, Lowther, Baumann, etc…, too depressing to name anymore of those pitchers. 
 

That’s pretty darn bare. 

Hall and Grayson.....

 

Also it's Cavalry.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Hall and Grayson.....

Adley or Witt delivered on a silver platter.

 

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I also think Bundy was an underrated chip that Elias didn't get a lot for.

Bradish is the O's 17th ranked prospect (OH list) with the other three not making the top 30.

Two years of Bundy should have brought back more.

Brnovich and Peek had “good” years though. I believe they were on the just missed list here. I’d say overall we’ve done really well with our trades with the Angels.