“Don’t worry, we will spend next year”

[CarrRun49]

@Explosivoreminds me of the biggest internet troll I can remember.  On the 247 Inside Maryland Sports boards, there was a guy, Resilient, (he/him/she/shim/her/whatever) that would continuously say how great of a job Mark Turgeon was doing and how lucky we were to have him.  No matter the issue brought up, it was always the most outlandish optimistic outlook one could ever have.  This non stop love act went on for approximately 2 years.  Out of the blue, Resilient finally confessed that he too actually hated Mark Turgeon and Maryland basketball.  So, @Explosivo, is that you? Could you possibly be this in love with what this franchise has given you over the past 3 years that you'll overlook everything? Or, will we find out you've been trolling us all along in 2024 when we still have 72 wins and waiting for all of our prospects to arrive.

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

I think it’s fair to say that the system he set up in Houston has done well. Projections are not what they used to be and the percentages of hitting the right players via scouting, analytics, coaching and measurables are not being fairly weighed by long time baseball fans. This is a new era where it’s far easier to track and project future talent. Because of this influx of day to day data, teams that incorporate this new found technique are able to hit on more top talent players than not. They are able to clearly show how certain players will do over time. I understand the trepidation but this really will be a golden era of Orioles baseball. 
 

I don’t think we need to worry about ownership either. I think they are very aware of what Elias is doing. The main reason I believe that is look at the facility they built in the Dominican. That facility cost some serious money and it was done with the forethought of it taking years to see dividends. They understand the long game and are spending their money accordingly. Elias is setting up a monster and there’s little reason for someone to leave once his plan comes to fruition. 
 

As to your point about spending money on free agents next year, you’re right, there really isn’t that much proven talent out there that will be available. Perhaps instead we see some trades, utilizing our very deep farm system. 

Serious money?  How much do you think they spent on that facility?

 

[Explosivo]

16 minutes ago, CarrRun49 said:

@Explosivoreminds me of the biggest internet troll I can remember.  On the 247 Inside Maryland Sports boards, there was a guy, Resilient, (he/him/she/shim/her/whatever) that would continuously say how great of a job Mark Turgeon was doing and how lucky we were to have him.  No matter the issue brought up, it was always the most outlandish optimistic outlook one could ever have.  This non stop love act went on for approximately 2 years.  Out of the blue, Resilient finally confessed that he too actually hated Mark Turgeon and Maryland basketball.  So, @Explosivo, is that you? Could you possibly be this in love with what this franchise has given you over the past 3 years that you'll overlook everything? Or, will we find out you've been trolling us all along in 2024 when we still have 72 wins and waiting for all of our prospects to arrive.

No that’s not me and I have no idea the site to which you are referring. I don’t follow Maryland basketball as I’m from Texas and I’m not trolling. I am a huge fan of the Orioles. I was there in 2014 for Delmon’s double. I live in Texas and follow the team. It’s tough being an Orioles fan in Texas right now, but I look at what the Astros have done and see striking similarities. It takes time to rebuild. I believe in the system Elias is building here because it has worked in Houston. I look at the players we have drafted and they are doing very well. Mayo in particular was an incredible get. I am certainly not a troll and nothing that I have posted should even suggest that. I’m a big believer in advanced analytics particularly the advances using cameras and real time data that Elias and his team brought to Houston. It pays off tremendously. The facility in the Dominican too offers us a differentiated product that will yield greater dividends than we really can quantify now. 
 

im familiar with Turgeon, he coached down here at Texas A&M and was not a great person. He always seemed holier than thou, ya know? He was not a culture fitt for the Aggies but in his defense, Aggies don’t really care that much about basketball anyway.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Explosivo

[Explosivo]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Serious money?  How much do you think they spent on that facility?

 

https://pressboxonline.com/2021/03/23/orioles-announce-plans-to-develop-new-dominican-academy/
 

 

its 22.5 acres, can house over 100 players and coaches, is 20 minutes away from the airport…it had to have cost a pretty penny, but it’s a legit facility and one that few teams in the majors will have. It’s a forward thinking move for a team that largely never made any inroads in Latin America. It’s a huge deal and one the owners would not have approved if they did not believe in Elias’ long term plan.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Explosivo

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

https://pressboxonline.com/2021/03/23/orioles-announce-plans-to-develop-new-dominican-academy/
 

 

its 22.5 acres, can house over 100 players and coaches, is 20 minutes away from the airport…it had to have cost a pretty penny, but it’s a legit facility and one that few teams in the majors will have. It’s a forward thinking move for a team that largely never made any inroads in Latin America. It’s a huge deal and one the owners would not have approved if they did not believe in Elias’ long term plan.

Well, as we discussed the other day..as of a few years ago, the average facility cost between 5.5-7.5M.  Say they spent 10 or even 12 million on this…that’s not much in the scheme of things, especially considering how much money the sport is bringing in.

Certainly glad it got done but let’s not act like they are doing something unique.

[Sports Guy]

How good were those picks of Aiken and Appel that Elias had a hand in?  Really, most of his early round pitching picks were poor in Houston.  

He did well with hitting .

[Explosivo]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

How good were those picks of Aiken and Appel that Elias had a hand in?  Really, most of his early round pitching picks were poor in Houston.  

He did well with hitting .

Yes which is why you don’t see him focusing on pitching in the early rounds here in Baltimore. Better to learn from mistakes made. I firmly believe Elias will leverage years away bats for proven commodity pitching arms to teams looking at fire sales to rebuild. It’s cheaper, it gives you an edge and it helps complete a team now. It’s one of the main reasons the Dominican facility is so important.

It’s something that only I think three other teams have. That’s certainly special. I was not able to find a cost for the facility but if it pumps out players of high quality by being able to evaluate and persuade their signing, then that is money extremely well spent. Again, it’s a differentiated product and it’s something that will give us an edge in the most talent rich area in Latin America. All things being equal, the team that can evaluate talent the best and project high quality players will win the day. It will also reload the coffers in our farm system. A steady stream of young Latin American players under team control to carefully evaluate and either trade away or keep. Huge wins all around.

Gone will be the days of overpaying for mediocre arms like that bummer of a deal with Ubaldo. Instead, we trade away some future for some present.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Explosivo

[sportsfan8703]

Why would we sign a bunch of FA when we’ll be adding AR, Stowers, Westburg, and Gunnar, to the hitting mix. GR and Hall as well. 
 

The lineup will be decent/good once AR is up this year. Will only be better next year. The bullpen looks like it’s could be coming together, but that only lasts if it doesn’t get burned out. 

Overall, I think the lineup and bullpen are ready to “compete” next year. Or darn close. It’s the rotation. What do with do with Means?  If we keep him, who pitches behind Means, GR, and Hall?

[Porky]

2 hours ago, Explosivo said:

We already have a SS in Gunnar Henderson. Why overpay for something we already have? We already have a couple of top flight SPs in Hall and Rodriguez. Why overpay for something we already have? We already have a 3B in Mayo. We already have a 2B in Westburg. We will be buyers but this is not the year to do so. Maybe next year but not for the names you suggest. Two years. Be patient and then be thankful for the next great Orioles club that brings home a World Series.

Besides the obvious point that many, many prospects don't pan out - is there a scout who actually believes Gunnar sticks at SS?

[Explosivo]

16 minutes ago, Porky said:

Besides the obvious point that many, many prospects don't pan out - is there a scout who actually believes Gunnar sticks at SS?

Yes. Callis said so earlier this year. https://pressboxonline.com/2021/02/05/jim-callis-on-why-orioles-prospect-gunnar-henderson-could-soon-be-top-100-prospect/

[jamalshw]

When it comes time, maybe next year, I do think we will spend at least as a mid-market team. Look at the Houston payroll when they were rebuilding versus now. And for the list of Free Agents next year, I'm not sure I understand the point. I see a number of very interesting players on that list. Assuming we need a middle infielder (and Henderson, Westburg, Mayo, etc. have casted shadows of doubts), there's likely Bogaerts (as you mention), but also Trea Turner and Adam Frazier if you want to go 2B. As for pitching, deGrom is the main prize, but Musgrove, Manaea, Bassitt, Clevenger, Syndergaard, Taillon, etc. could all be interesting depending on how 2021 pans out and how/if some bounce back from injury. Looking that far out is hard given a ton of potential variables. 

[sportsfan8703]

@Sports GuyWould this thread exist if we gave Josh Harrison 2/20+?  

Edited December 1, 2021 by sportsfan8703

[LookinUp]

9 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

This is the mantra of many people on here and on social media.

Ok, let’s go with that.

Which of these FAs are you thinking the team would and should go after?

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/08/2022-23-mlb-free-agents.html

That's a long list of people. Some will pop this year and be worth targeting. Some won't.

I'm not convinced we spend either way for better or for worse. Free agent spending will never be the key to building a winner. Pitchers in particular will want to see guys having success here before signing here for anywhere near market price. 

I'm on board with Elias specifically because I think we can draft and develop enough talent to win and or to trade for the people we need to win. That's my focus. Not overinflated free agent prices.

[Yardball85]

2 hours ago, Explosivo said:

We already have a SS in Gunnar Henderson. Why overpay for something we already have? We already have a couple of top flight SPs in Hall and Rodriguez. Why overpay for something we already have? We already have a 3B in Mayo. We already have a 2B in Westburg. We will be buyers but this is not the year to do so. Maybe next year but not for the names you suggest. Two years. Be patient and then be thankful for the next great Orioles club that brings home a World Series.

What?

We shouldn't sign good players because we may have prospects that may be good?  I am not a fan of that logic. Sorry. 

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

@Sports GuyWould this thread exist if we gave Josh Harrison 2/20+?  

It would from me.  I don’t want Harrison at all.  A 2/20 deal for him is an awful idea.