John Means 2022

[Il BuonO]

Means out of the gate....pre no-hitter or post ASG? I'm still less than optimistic he's anything more than a back of the rotation guy when it's all said and done.

[Pickles]

Even with his low innings, Means has averaged like 4 WAR a season the last three years- prorating the shortened season.

I'm not sure where that qualifies as a "back of the rotation guy."

[Il BuonO]

8 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Even with his low innings, Means has averaged like 4 WAR a season the last three years- prorating the shortened season.

I'm not sure where that qualifies as a "back of the rotation guy."

Obviously, it doesn't. I am not exactly impressed with his stuff except for the CH, which if he doesn't have, makes him mediocre. As always, I'll be happy if he proves me wrong and continues with the production you noted.

[oriole]

I hate to say it but until he can put up some numbers like he did before they started cracking down on the sticky stuff then I don’t think I totally believe he was as good as he seemed. 

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, oriole said:

I hate to say it but until he can put up some numbers like he did before they started cracking down on the sticky stuff then I don’t think I totally believe he was as good as he seemed. 

I think by the end of ST MLB will institute the "Bautista rule" which allows some kind stickiness to improve grip.   With Bautista throwing 100mph without any stickiness it could be dangerous.   

[Pickles]

3 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Obviously, it doesn't. I am not exactly impressed with his stuff except for the CH, which if he doesn't have, makes him mediocre. As always, I'll be happy if he proves me wrong and continues with the production you noted.

His stuff isn't great w/o the change.  The fastballs average, maybe a tick above; the breaking ball is below average; the command is good though.

However, that changeup, when it's going, may well be the best straight change I've seen from  LHP in my lifetime.  That feels hyperbolic, and perhaps it is, but I honestly can't remember a better one.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

His stuff isn't great w/o the change.  The fastballs average, maybe a tick above; the breaking ball is below average; the command is good though.

However, that changeup, when it's going, may well be the best straight change I've seen from  LHP in my lifetime.  That feels hyperbolic, and perhaps it is, but I honestly can't remember a better one.

Moyer?  Buehrle?  Santana?  Liriano?

[Pickles]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Moyer?  Buehrle?  Santana?  Liriano?

I thought of Moyer but I considered his change more of a circle change w fade.

I remember Santana's more as a split w drop.

I recall Liriano as a young flamethrower with a great breaking ball.

Buehrle is a pretty good comp.

These are of course just my personal remembrances.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I thought of Moyer but I considered his change more of a circle change w fade.

I remember Santana's more as a split w drop.

I recall Liriano as a young flamethrower with a great breaking ball.

Buehrle is a pretty good comp.

These are of course just my personal remembrances.

I’m not too good at differentiating the different types of change ups.   

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’m not too good at differentiating the different types of change ups.   

Well something that should be apparent about Means' changeup is that he pitches up with it.

[Sports Guy]

Big Means fan.  Not sure I feel the need to extend him like some have asked for.

Misses bats, throws strikes, gives up less than a hit per IP..will give up the homer but the fences moved back will help him.

[Il BuonO]

On 3/17/2022 at 3:06 PM, Pickles said:

His stuff isn't great w/o the change.  The fastballs average, maybe a tick above; the breaking ball is below average; the command is good though.

However, that changeup, when it's going, may well be the best straight change I've seen from  LHP in my lifetime.  That feels hyperbolic, and perhaps it is, but I honestly can't remember a better one.

You’re not wrong. When he has it, it’s beautiful. 

[CharmCityHokie]

I think the sticky-stuff talk is interesting (not just for Means, but also for Paul Fry), but as I understand it, tack is supposed to increase spin rate, and judging by John Means pitch spin rates over 2021, there is not a real change between before and after the ban:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/john-means-607644?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

[Il BuonO]

Not a good outing for first ST game, but it’s the first one. Command was bad in the last inning he pitched and the CH was mediocre.

[Il BuonO]

Almost 5 IP today, not bad.