Jorge Mateo

[eddie83]

52 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The O's need a different hitting philosophy.   We watch Toronto, Tampa, Seattle, and even Cleveland string hit after hit together to create big scoring innings.  Meanwhile the O's swing for the fences.   Mateo is just part of that.  He has improved in the 2nd half but seems to be going back to his 1st half hitting approach.  

its a team wide hitting problem that Elias has to fix this off season.

Hyde mentioned after the game their swings are long. They see it. I think the new coaches need time. Saw improvement after April. 
 

Toronto is just flat out more talented. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Hyde mentioned after the game their swings are long. They see it. I think the new coaches need time. Saw improvement after April. 
 

Toronto is just flat out more talented. 

Everything is pull pull pull.  There is almost no effort to use all fields.  

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Everything is pull pull pull.  There is almost no effort to use all fields.  

O’s are 10th in MLB in pull percentage, 25th in opposite field percentage.  

[eddie83]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Everything is pull pull pull.  There is almost no effort to use all fields.  

In Camden for a RHH that is no longer a good formula anyway. 

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

In Camden for a RHH that is no longer a good formula anyway. 

But they still think it’s easier to load up and jack one out to left than shoot one out to RF.   Does Hays even have one oppo field homer in OPACY this year.  Urías used to go oppo all of the time.  Now, he’s a home run hitter.  Mountcastle has some RF homers but he could have many more if he tried.  It’s not a coincidence.  The best hitters take what the pitchers give them.   

[spiritof66]

20 hours ago, Frobby said:

What do you think you are going to learn from the remaining 23 games that you didn’t learn in the first 139?  Obviously he could finish up or down from here, but it won’t change anything fundamental that we know.  

I don't expect to learn much more about Mateo's offensive ability -- more accurately, I don't expect the Orioles to learn much more about it -- in 2022. But I would like to see how he does in ST and the first couple of months of 2023, including whether he can learn to bunt his way on, whether he can improve his plate discipline, and how the limitation on pick-off throws affects his value as a baserunner.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

But they still think it’s easier to load up and jack one out to left than shoot one out to RF.   Does Hays even have one oppo field homer in OPACY this year.  Urías used to go oppo all of the time.  Now, he’s a home run hitter.  Mountcastle has some RF homers but he could have many more if he tried.  It’s not a coincidence.  The best hitters take what the pitchers give them.   

The approach lately has been pretty bad. They look like they are pressing.

 

That said look at the RHH on this team. None of them get on base at a high clip. 
 

The Yankees are 10th in AL BA at .239. The Orioles are 11th at .235. The Yankees are 2nd in OPS at .323 and the Orioles are 12th at .303. This club does not get on base enough. Mateo could be a force on the bases if he could reach more often. 

[eddie83]

No Odor next year. I’m not against trading anyone not named Henderson but have Gunnar, Mateo, Urias and Westburg-Ortiz battle it out. 
 

Good teams have good depth. You can live with a bat like Mateo’s but the issue is we have too many of them. 
 

[Ohfan67]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

That said look at the RHH on this team. None of them get on base at a high clip. 
 

The Yankees are 10th in AL BA at .239. The Orioles are 11th at .235. The Yankees are 2nd in OPS at .323 and the Orioles are 12th at .303. This club does not get on base enough. Mateo could be a force on the bases if he could reach more often. 

As you and many others have pointed out, it's ultimately a personnel issue. The Orioles have rightly invested playing time into a lot of fringy hitters/position players and they have had more success this year with that approach than we could have dreamed. But it seems like it is hard to teach on base skills at the ML level. K% and BB% of minor leaguers is highly correlated with their K% and BB% when they reach the big leagues, for example (https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/minors-to-the-majors-hitter-metric-correlations/). The Orioles ultimately need to replace multiple players if they want to see a consistent improvement in the offense.

 

Regarding Mateo: He may end up being a valuable super utility player for the next couple of years, but not a starter. 

[AlbNYfan]

4 hours ago, RZNJ said:

The bunt is a terrible play because most players can’t do it successfully more than 50% of the time.  I don’t think McKenna is good but he’s only the 4th OF.   Hays has looked terrible in the 2nd half but I’d give him another chance while Stowers gains traction and Cowser gets ready.

That may be true, but McKenna is less than 50% on any aspect of hitting. IMO, a no hit, role player, with speed better have more to his game than D. He should be able to lay down a bunt. I can accept Hays as a third/fourth OF'er next year. I am not sure about Stowers yet, but you have reported that there are others in play at AAA. Off topic, but can you tell me why pitchers are allowed to tap their lead foot a number of times after coming to a set position. It seems to me it is a move to the plate that "deceives" the base runner and it is a move to the plate, a balk. People complained about Luis Tiant..this is worse.

[eddie83]

12 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

As you and many others have pointed out, it's ultimately a personnel issue. The Orioles have rightly invested playing time into a lot of fringy hitters/position players and they have had more success this year with that approach than we could have dreamed. But it seems like it is hard to teach on base skills at the ML level. K% and BB% of minor leaguers is highly correlated with their K% and BB% when they reach the big leagues, for example (https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/minors-to-the-majors-hitter-metric-correlations/). The Orioles ultimately need to replace multiple players if they want to see a consistent improvement in the offense.

 

Regarding Mateo: He may end up being a valuable super utility player for the next couple of years, but not a starter. 

Giving opportunities to players like Urias and Mateo has worked out well. Both have been positive players and both can play on championship caliber teams. 

 

In general I would think it is easier to find a RHH who gets on base from the OF than the INF. Infielders who can field and get on base are extremely valuable. 
 

A big key is how good Ortiz and Westburg wind up being. Other part is whether or not they are used as trade chips. Stowers is in the same boat. 

[nvpacchi]

I was looking at Mateo's 15 game rolling average graphs, and his process still seems to be good - for his standards.  His o-swing has been relatively consistent all year around 36%, no change recently, and his k-rate has nicely been hovering around 25% even during his poor run - not like the 47% it was during some of his biggest slumps.  So at least he is still making contact.

But it definitely isn't quality contact.  His FB rate has skyrocketed to over 50% and his line drive rate has dropped below 15%.  His best streaks he had a 40/20 FB/LD rate.

His results haven't been good, but it is encouraging that he's not losing discipline and having his K rate balloon out of proportion.  Hopefully he can even out his swing, hit more line drives, and even ground balls and utilize his blazing speed.  The last 3 weeks will be super interesting to see if he can adjust his approach.  B/c Mateo with a 24% K-rate and a high BABIP and an elite glove would still be a good shortstop.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

 

A big key is how good Ortiz and Westburg wind up being. Other part is whether or not they are used as trade chips. Stowers is in the same boat. 

And this is why I want Stowers to get regular at bats for the remainder of the season. The more trade assets Elias has going into this off-season the better. 

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, AlbNYfan said:

That may be true, but McKenna is less than 50% on any aspect of hitting. IMO, a no hit, role player, with speed better have more to his game than D. He should be able to lay down a bunt. I can accept Hays as a third/fourth OF'er next year. I am not sure about Stowers yet, but you have reported that there are others in play at AAA. Off topic, but can you tell me why pitchers are allowed to tap their lead foot a number of times after coming to a set position. It seems to me it is a move to the plate that "deceives" the base runner and it is a move to the plate, a balk. People complained about Luis Tiant..this is worse.

Pitchers are allowed to do certain things when they go into a stretch if they do it every time.   Just like when they stop their hands about 3 different times going into a set position.   As long as they do the same thing every time it's not considered a balk.

[forphase1]

Looks like the carriage is turning back into a pumpkin for Mateo.  He just can't lay off the sliders.  2 straight strike outs on 3 pitches each,  all sliders.  For a while there he got good at laying off that pitch but lately it's been his kryptonite.  Earlier I thought he'd turned a corner and may be a keeper but now that's looking much less likely imo.

Edited September 14, 2022 by forphase1
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