MacPhail: Savior or not?

[TJ Wrangler]

I agree with Jim here. Have I succumbed to acting like that to friends in my lesser moments in the past? Yes, I have before, but I haven't in years. I usually ended up regretting it when I did have these sorts of moments so I tried to learn from my mistakes.

FYI, I don't think you did anything wrong in just repeating it though. I never did. I probably wouldn't have repeated it, but it is a judgment call IMO.

Well in my defense, I'm getting my information from someone who got the information from the source. I can't confirm any exact quotes. I apologize for using bad language. The general feelings of the source towards AM is the important thing I wanted to get out.

[Lucky Jim]

Well in my defense, I'm getting my information from someone who got the information from the source. I can't confirm any exact quotes. I apologize for using bad language. The general feelings of the source towards AM is the important thing I wanted to get out.

No need to defend yourself. The thread contributes something to the board - I just feel better about it now that it's edited.

Where this thread should go is adversarial: for those who agree that AM isn't that bright and/or that the teams he's worked with all were better off after he left, make your case.

For those who like AM's approach and want to defend him, make your case. Let's see where this goes.

[MemphisOsFan]

Take this for what its worth.

I was talking to my father earlier about the direction this organization is going, and I brought up that I thought we were better off under MacPhail, when I received some shocking news.

According to my guy, who has dealt with MacPhail directly this offseason, MacPhail is one of the biggest jerks he has ever dealt with. I was told that in terms of baseball knowledge, MacPhail is not exceptionally bright, and the reason he is so exceptionally slow is because he lacks the top end baseball knowledge to make swift and decisive moves. I was also told that it is more of the same with Angelos running the warehouse, and MacPhail is not as free as we would like to believe. I was told the reason we don't hear about Angelos so much is because MacPhail surrounds himself with people who won't leak to the press, and is quick to get rid of people who think about going to the press. On the Krivsky hiring, I was told that it was more of a cover his weaknesses type move to compensate for lack of knowledge. This guy has also dealt with Krivsky, and apparently he has more baseball sense than MacPhail. I was also told that a lot of MacPhail's respect around the league comes from his father, and that MacPhail has ridden his father's coattails well. Ultimately, Angelos does trust him, but I was told it was more along the lines of them being similar thinkers and that Angelos trusts him more to make moves that he would agree to. When I pointed out that MacPhail has a fairly successful track record, it was pointed out that every team that had him ultimately got rid of him for someone less known who did even better.

All that said, I gathered that MacPhail does surround himself with smarter baseball people, and I still believe we're better off with him than Flannigan and Duquette. Remember that my source is outside of the organization, so he and MacPhail could just be on bad terms, and I have no idea how the warehouse runs day in and day out. I'm hoping Bigbird could chime in, as his source is fairly critical of MacPhail too. I'd also be interested to see if any of our Cubs fans could support or refute this.

I realize this will not be the most popular news, but keep in mind that it is just one person's opinion after dealing with him for so long. Any thoughts?

If I am not mistaken, AM is the 'General Manager' of the Orioles and he has to deal with player transactions, represent the company is trade negotiations with players (i.e., Boras and Tex, Bedard, etc), scouting, the minor leagues, and the like.

With that said, AM is an administrator/manager so regardless of his abilities, he must surround himself with persons who compliment his abilities and his agenda. Sometimes, that requires making tough decisions and that can lead to the perception that he is a so-called 'jerk' which in itself subjective.

So, IMO, this is not insider information but an insight into one persons view of AM which is a subjective. I am not defending AM in anyway but this type of behavior is common for managers in the corporate world and I see this on a daily basis.

[zff4]

Baseball business is a hugely gossipy place and to be sure, the owners are in competition with each other, and the staffs are waiting to move up to their collegues jobs in their own org or in another.

What mutual respect exists is sometimes like that of wolves in a pack vying for pecking order so gossip is often negative and backbiting as of course like gossip often is. And I do admit to the occasional guilty pleasure hearing it.

But Mr MacPhail's decisions to date have reflected sound baseball reasoning so I would discount that nasty gossip about him as just that, nasty gossip.

[ChaosLex]

Take this for what its worth.

I was talking to my father earlier about the direction this organization is going, and I brought up that I thought we were better off under MacPhail, when I received some shocking news.

According to my guy, who has dealt with MacPhail directly this offseason, MacPhail is one of the biggest jerks he has ever dealt with. I was told that in terms of baseball knowledge, MacPhail is not exceptionally bright, and the reason he is so exceptionally slow is because he lacks the top end baseball knowledge to make swift and decisive moves. I was also told that it is more of the same with Angelos running the warehouse, and MacPhail is not as free as we would like to believe. I was told the reason we don't hear about Angelos so much is because MacPhail surrounds himself with people who won't leak to the press, and is quick to get rid of people who think about going to the press. On the Krivsky hiring, I was told that it was more of a cover his weaknesses type move to compensate for lack of knowledge. This guy has also dealt with Krivsky, and apparently he has more baseball sense than MacPhail. I was also told that a lot of MacPhail's respect around the league comes from his father, and that MacPhail has ridden his father's coattails well. Ultimately, Angelos does trust him, but I was told it was more along the lines of them being similar thinkers and that Angelos trusts him more to make moves that he would agree to. When I pointed out that MacPhail has a fairly successful track record, it was pointed out that every team that had him ultimately got rid of him for someone less known who did even better.

All that said, I gathered that MacPhail does surround himself with smarter baseball people, and I still believe we're better off with him than Flannigan and Duquette. Remember that my source is outside of the organization, so he and MacPhail could just be on bad terms, and I have no idea how the warehouse runs day in and day out. I'm hoping Bigbird could chime in, as his source is fairly critical of MacPhail too. I'd also be interested to see if any of our Cubs fans could support or refute this.

I realize this will not be the most popular news, but keep in mind that it is just one person's opinion after dealing with him for so long. Any thoughts?

I know this won't be a popular opinion around here, but if Lier's source is accurate in his portrayal of AM, it brings me some peace to know that the Teixeira sweepstakes is being handled by PGA rather than AM.

[twoBshorty]

I didn't see the original post so I can't comment on its tone, but as for the edited version, thank you for posting it. Of course all this comes through a lens of people's personal biases and games of telephone, but the post was a very interesting read and, more importantly, something interesting not about Mark Teixeira!

I think it's too early still to evaluate MacPhail, but I will say that in general I am not a fan of the slow, plodding methodical style. Baseball moves 200 mph these days, a lot of baseball ops guys work 100-hour weeks, and I just can't help but feel that when you sit around and smell the roses and take a nice long time to make a proper decision, well, that's great for that decision, but how many other potential ones flew by outside your window while you were staring at the one? I cannot help but notice that the Orioles seem to take an inordinately long amount of time to do anything as compared with other teams, and I admit that it concerns me. Sometimes you have to be bold, and I haven't seen that thus far. In fact, I haven't seen it in years from this team.

[TakebackOPACY]

Dealing with the OP's question: Savior or not?

He's certainly not a savior (in my opinion), but he's pretty good. And I believe strongly that he's the right guy for the job. For years now, we've known that there are some things majorly wrong throughout this organization. Even in the mid-90's, the organization was flawed. But at that time, the economics of baseball were such that the O's were able to buy enough free agents to have some success.

The job at hand, to me, is re-building the organization from the ground up. The new focus on the organization as a whole is the difference. MacPhail doesn't hold the same job that Duquette/Flanagan/Beattie/Thrift/Wren/Gillick held. The reality is much more that MacPhail replaced many of the responsibilities of Joe Foss.

We may never know how Duquette or Beattie could've done in MacPhail's job. It strikes me that they wouldn't have been ready; and it's irrelevant because it's clear that Angelos wouldn't have put them in that position. But he did put MacPhail in that position.

I trust MacPhail to establish a complete organization that has a chance to win in today's game with today's economics. It's almost like he's teaching the Orioles how to give themselves a chance to be successful.

My ultimate concerns are:

• Once he has re-built the organization, he may not be the right guy to do the things that put the team over the top. The Cubs decided this was the case.
• Angelos may still undercut him. Patience is a virtue. But if Angelos perceives MacPhail as being too patient (rightly or wrongly) and/or if MacPhail perceives Angelos as not being patient enough (rightly or wrongly), friction will result.
• MacPhail may take too much pride in being too fiscally responsible. He was ready to let Wieters walk. Some have said (wrongly, I think) that Duquette wouldn't have gotten Wieters signed. I think that's ridiculous, but I think Duquette would've paid closer to the $10m Boras wanted. MacPhail won that game of chicken, but he'll have his share of losses as well.

I also have this underlying fear that ultimately MacPhail will build an economically strong team moreso than a winning team. But concerning the job at hand (in my opinion) is to build the foundation, MacPhail has hit on all cylinders so far.

[Orioles West]

It doesn't matter what AM's personality is or isn't. It doesn't matter what he knows, or doesn't know. Any baseball team is only going to get as good as ownership allows. My guess is whatever the level of AM's actual baseball knowledge is, it is pretty good based simply on prior history.

AM can make suggestions and moves until the cows come home, but the person signing the checks, or their willingness to sign the checks is the the actual bottom line.

As to the original question, is he a savior? Only if PA lets him.

-Don

[TJ Wrangler]

He was ready to let Wieters walk. Some have said (wrongly, I think) that Duquette wouldn't have gotten Wieters signed. I think that's ridiculous, but I think Duquette would've paid closer to the $10m Boras wanted. MacPhail won that game of chicken, but he'll have his share of losses as well.

I believe Angelos had to overstep him to get the deal done. I can't complain on that one though.

[Lucky Jim]

I didn't see the original post so I can't comment on its tone, but as for the edited version, thank you for posting it. Of course all this comes through a lens of people's personal biases and games of telephone, but the post was a very interesting read and, more importantly, something interesting not about Mark Teixeira!

I think it's too early still to evaluate MacPhail, but I will say that in general I am not a fan of the slow, plodding methodical style. Baseball moves 200 mph these days, a lot of baseball ops guys work 100-hour weeks, and I just can't help but feel that when you sit around and smell the roses and take a nice long time to make a proper decision, well, that's great for that decision, but how many other potential ones flew by outside your window while you were staring at the one? I cannot help but notice that the Orioles seem to take an inordinately long amount of time to do anything as compared with other teams, and I admit that it concerns me. Sometimes you have to be bold, and I haven't seen that thus far. In fact, I haven't seen it in years from this team.

This is a very good point. Now, in the context of TBOPACY's post, we can see how this is shaping up.

AM knows he's not a 200MPH guy. But rebuilding the organization isn't a 200MPH job. It's a methodical one. So, it makes sense that AM thinks his job here is one that is relatively short-term. When the organization is rebuilt, and it comes time to make quicker decisions, he'll be ready to hand over an organization that is efficient, risk-diversified, and capable of sustaining in the long-term.

[ChuckyBobby]

I've never met or had to work with the man, so I won't speculate about what kind of person he has. What I can do is look at what he's produced so far. Last years trades have shown me all I need to know. This guy knows what he is doing.

[Lucky Jim]

I believe Angelos had to overstep him to get the deal done. I can't complain on that one though.

I'm doubtful about that, due to the final numbers. And, frankly, being able to walk away is the only way to negotiate. If the other side doesn't think you can, then you've already lost.

We had all the leverage with Wieters in that situation - there was no way he was going back to college with that kind of money on the table.

[Sports Guy]

AM has a ton to prove to me and really, to everyone else(at least I would hope so).

There is no indication at this time, IMO, that he is the "savior of the team"...There is also no indication, IMO, that he isn't the guy that can take us to where we need to go.

This offseason will tell everything to me.

[Lucky Jim]

AM has a ton to prove to me and really, to everyone else(at least I would hope so).

There is no indication at this time, IMO, that he is the "savior of the team"...There is also no indication, IMO, that he isn't the guy that can take us to where we need to go.

This offseason will tell everything to me.

I think this is right, to a point. I have little fault with his moves so far, and thus think there's positive evidence.

Being a savior isn't AM's M.O.

[TJ Wrangler]

I'm doubtful about that, due to the final numbers. And, frankly, being able to walk away is the only way to negotiate. If the other side doesn't think you can, then you've already lost.

We had all the leverage with Wieters in that situation - there was no way he was going back to college with that kind of money on the table.

I remember reading somewhere that Angelos had to come in and offer an extra million to get the deal done. I think AM was stuck at 5, and Angelos made it 6 at the final hour.