MacPhail: Savior or not?

[Boy Howdy]

I just can't put much stock in anything coming from someone who dubs themself "Liar Exaggerate".

Common sense tells us that if it looks like poop & and smells like poop, it's poop. The Bible says 'out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks', but also that people's 'itching ears will hear what they want to hear'

Combined with the whole botched name changing fiasco yesterday, the OP has about zero credibilty to me. Even if the access to an actual source is there, I have grave doubts about their ability to communicate the info accurately.

[Baltimoron]

My head hurts.

Isn't it obvious McPhail's job is to negotiate as well as he can, and then at decision time (The Os are supposedly getting a last chance to match) to take it to Angelos to see what they want to do.

One of Andy's big resume notes is negotiating the CBA (along with Angelos). He's a world class negotiator.

He works for Angelos and negotiates on Angelos' behalf. But Angelos has the final decision authority, because he is the owner.

And IMO its not reasonable to assume that Angelos is overruling McPhail or is in disagreement with McPhail just becuase Andy is doing his job and being a strong negotiator.

[Hank Scorpio]

When Angelos hired MacPhail (and fired Perlozzo), I remember hearing Viviano reacting to it. In surprise almost, because in baseball circles, MacPhail is considered a very good baseball guy. Not a finance guy, a baseball guy.

At the time, we had both Duquette and Flanagan steering the ship. How much decision making power they had I guess is debatable, and how much decision making power MacPhail has is debatable as well, IMO.

At any rate, to say that MacPhail doesn't have baseball sense is kind of strange to me. He may not sit there and analyze each team's system on his own (I'm not certain as to whether or not he's ever been a scout), but that's why we have scouts, folks. He likely gathers the information and suggestions of our scouting department and makes the executive decisions based on the reports he receives.

And honestly, I don't really give a damn if he's a jerk or not. If we examine the deals that he has made thus far, I don't think we can sit and say he's set the organization back anywhere. You can sit there all day and say, "He shoulda done this, we coulda done that...." and that's all well and good... but we don't know what reality is for him.

Thus far, I'm happy with what he's done. I met the man and talked with him for a few minutes at a Ravens game a few weeks ago. He certainly seemed engaging and friendly enough to me. Now, I didn't try to negotiate the gloves off his hands or anything.... so I'm not sure how he is at the negotiating table.

But the proof has been in the pudding thus far.

[TJ Wrangler]

I just can't put much stock in anything coming from someone who dubs themself "Liar Exaggerate".

Common sense tells us that if it looks like poop & and smells like poop, it's poop. The Bible says 'out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks', but also that people's 'itching ears will hear what they want to hear'

Combined with the whole botched name changing fiasco yesterday, the OP has about zero credibilty to me. Even if the access to an actual source is there, I have grave doubts about their ability to commnicate the info accurately.

Here is a solution to your problem.

1. Go to my profile

2. Click user lists

3. Click add to ignore list.

Problem solved.

[Mashed Potatoes]

My head hurts.

Isn't it obvious McPhail's job is to negotiate as well as he can, and then at decision time (The Os are supposedly getting a last chance to match) to take it to Angelos to see what they want to do.

One of Andy's big resume notes is negotiating the CBA (along with Angelos). He's a world class negotiator.

He works for Angelos and negotiates on Angelos' behalf. But Angelos has the final decision authority, because he is the owner.

And IMO its not reasonable to assume that Angelos is overruling McPhail or is in disagreement with McPhail just becuase Andy is doing his job and being a strong negotiator.

There's too much anger and bitterness in Orioles fans to view certain situations objectively, even if it's a subject where the debaters are woefully ignorant.

Lets step back for a second,

-We don't actually know what our proposed offer is

-We don't actually know what other teams' proposed offers are

-Tex has not signed anywhere

How can anyone possibly pass judgment on the negotiating job done so far?

[Lucky Jim]

When Angelos hired MacPhail (and fired Perlozzo), I remember hearing Viviano reacting to it. In surprise almost, because in baseball circles, MacPhail is considered a very good baseball guy. Not a finance guy, a baseball guy.

At the time, we had both Duquette and Flanagan steering the ship. How much decision making power they had I guess is debatable, and how much decision making power MacPhail has is debatable as well, IMO.

At any rate, to say that MacPhail doesn't have baseball sense is kind of strange to me. He may not sit there and analyze each team's system on his own (I'm not certain as to whether or not he's ever been a scout), but that's why we have scouts, folks. He likely gathers the information and suggestions of our scouting department and makes the executive decisions based on the reports he receives.

And honestly, I don't really give a damn if he's a jerk or not. If we examine the deals that he has made thus far, I don't think we can sit and say he's set the organization back anywhere. You can sit there all day and say, "He shoulda done this, we coulda done that...." and that's all well and good... but we don't know what reality is for him.

Thus far, I'm happy with what he's done. I met the man and talked with him for a few minutes at a Ravens game a few weeks ago. He certainly seemed engaging and friendly enough to me. Now, I didn't try to negotiate the gloves off his hands or anything.... so I'm not sure how he is at the negotiating table.

But the proof has been in the pudding thus far.

Mmmm. Pudding.

[TJ Wrangler]

Mmmm. Pudding.

I wish I could rep you for that, but I've given out too much recently.

[Baltimoron]

And honestly, I don't really give a damn if he's a jerk or not.

Its my understanding the source for that opinion may be someone who works on the opposite side of the negotiating table from the Os/McPhail.

That shouldn't be surprising, nor really discouraging.

It could arguably be viewed as a positive.

[javadawg44]

:eektf: Delete this post now!!!! :laughlol:

What is this, 1938???!?!?!

(joke from another thread)

[dreaM946]

who cares about his personality, look at the plethora of talent he has gotten in trades and the way he has re shaped the farm due to those trades + drafting wise and signing all of the top picks he selected

[Boy Howdy]

who cares about his personality, look at the plethora of talent he has gotten in trades and the way he has re shaped the farm due to those trades + drafting wise and signing all of the top picks he selected

Not to mention two World Series rings.

There really aren't too many GM's who ever earned one, and MacPhail -whose father and grandfather and both in the Hall of Fame- has a pair.

[olehippi]

When I read the title of this thread, my first thought was that speculating on whether MacPhail was a "savior" would be very premature. I mean.....he's barely out of the cradle with the Orioles and really hasn't had time to perform any real miracles yet.

Then I read the rest of the thread.......it was almost biblical, filled with believers and doubters. And I get the feeling we're almost to the part where the money changers get thrown out of the temple.

[Sports Guy]

Not to mention two World Series rings.

There really aren't too many GM's who ever earned one, and MacPhail -whose father and grandfather and both in the Hall of Fame- has a pair.

People always bring this up but this really doesn't mean much. I am not sure if Beane or Shuerholz have sons or not but if they do, does that mean their sons will automatically be great GMs?

Yes, he grew up in baseball but you can also say that the only reason he is where he is today is because of his last name..not based on merit.

[Sports Guy]

I just can't put much stock in anything coming from someone who dubs themself "Liar Exaggerate".

Common sense tells us that if it looks like poop & and smells like poop, it's poop. The Bible says 'out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks', but also that people's 'itching ears will hear what they want to hear'

Combined with the whole botched name changing fiasco yesterday, the OP has about zero credibilty to me. Even if the access to an actual source is there, I have grave doubts about their ability to communicate the info accurately.

What if the info was that AM is a joy to work with and that he thinks he is one of the best GMs in the sport...Would you put stock into that info?

[jcroemer]

No one called him a jerk when he got 5 players for Bedard and another 5 for Tejada (though not in that order)... except maybe people in Seattle and Houston.