Playing complimentary baseball

[DrungoHazewood]

19 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Schoop had average range, at best, when he was 25.  What conclusion do you draw from him being #1 in QAA?

Perhaps it's that he gets really good jumps and is faster than he looks.  They use tracking technology that's accurate to fractions of an inch, that reliably measure velocity and hang time and fielder position and sprint speed. If Schoop leads the league in OAA it means he's getting to more balls than anyone else given his number of opportunities.  Part of it may be that he profiles more as a third baseman (strong arm, not fast) so he may be positioned in ways that let him get to more balls and use his arm to make up for being father from first than anyone else.

He also leads the league in innings at second by 70, so he's had more opportunities to compile OAA than anyone else.  It's like leading the league in RBI when you've played 100 games and nobody else has more than 90.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Perhaps it's that he gets really good jumps and is faster than he looks.  They use tracking technology that's accurate to fractions of an inch, that reliably measure velocity and hang time and fielder position and sprint speed. If Schoop leads the league in OAA it means he's getting to more balls than anyone else given his number of opportunities.  Part of it may be that he profiles more as a third baseman (strong arm, not fast) so he may be positioned in ways that let him get to more balls and use his arm to make up for being father from first than anyone else.

He also leads the league in innings at second by 70, so he's had more opportunities to compile OAA than anyone else.  It's like leading the league in RBI when you've played 100 games and nobody else has more than 90.

This is why I wish they divide the OAA by innings played at the position, times by nine, than times by 150 to give and idea over 150 games how much OAA they would be worth.

My second base would look like:

OAA/150    vs OAA

Scoop:  31.6     22  
Edman: 17.3     6
Story: 17.2        9
Espino: 14.4      8
Albies:  12.5      5
Odor:   -7.5      -4
So Scope would be still the best when innings are taken into consideration from the guys I ran. Not surprisingly, Schoop gets most of OAA from distances where he needs his plus-plus arm, deep just to the right of 2B, and shallow RF. When the shift is abolished, he'll lose some of shallow RF OOA. 

Basically the Tigers have found out that having a plus arm and being steady (only 3 errors) under the current shifts makes a second baseman very valuable defensively, even if their range isn't great. (BTW: rWAR puts him at .9 dWAR)

So why is Odor so low, despite the good arm? He's -5 OOA playing just straight up normal second base mostly accounting from his league leading 11 errors. He's good in shallow RF, gaining about 2 OAA.

Note: You could times by 8.7 instead of 9 since when I went back and checked average of innings per games played in the field, 8.7 seems to be around what an average player on a .500 team would play. It seems to vary between 8.6 and 8.8 depending on whether there team won a lot (not needing to play the 9th) or lost a lot.

[DrungoHazewood]

32 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

So Scope would be still the best when innings are taken into consideration from the guys I ran. Not surprisingly, Schoop gets most of OAA from distances where he needs his plus-plus arm, deep just to the right of 2B, and shallow RF. When the shift is abolished, he'll lose some of shallow RF OOA. 

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hope they don't ban the shift.  I just don't get why you'd quash innovation that helps creative teams so you can boost Joey Gallo and Chris Davis trying to hit .220.

[Just Regular]

It isn't counted per X number of games, but on the generic Outs Above Average leaderboard, my basic understanding is the rightmost column "Success Rate Added" is basically the one to translate it into a rate stat.

Toggling the sort to that column head, Jose SIri leapfrogs Schoop as the YTD leader.     Would you believe the Rays threw a surprisingly good pitching prospect into a 3-way trade to get him as they let Phillips go?

SIri's OPS might linger in the .500's, but the Rays are a run prevention outfit.

Last offseason trying to fathom the Odor acquisition was when I sort of found an angle poking around with Success Rate Added.   

Going off memory, but in 2021 at 2B if you lowered the chances to levels Odor and Urias both met, Odor was about a 90th percentile rate guy, and Urias near the bottom 10 percent.      The Odor not Urias 2B choice agrees with Earl in Weaver on Strategy saying he liked having his best fielders in the starting lineup.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Just Regular

[ChuckS]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hope they don't ban the shift.  I just don't get why you'd quash innovation that helps creative teams so you can boost Joey Gallo and Chris Davis trying to hit .220.

I’m against eliminating the shift in theory but in practicality it will make the game more enjoyable to watch.

More hits, more guys on base. The game needs that. 

[deward]

23 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

I’m against eliminating the shift in theory but in practicality it will make the game more enjoyable to watch.

More hits, more guys on base. The game needs that. 

Pretty much this. If you're one of those people who wants to resurrect 1980s style baseball, with less home runs, higher batting averages, more action on the basepaths, etc, (one of the big reasons why people like The Wall, right?) then the shift has to go. 

[Sports Guy]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hope they don't ban the shift.  I just don't get why you'd quash innovation that helps creative teams so you can boost Joey Gallo and Chris Davis trying to hit .220.

 

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't want to derail the thread, but I hope they don't ban the shift.  I just don't get why you'd quash innovation that helps creative teams so you can boost Joey Gallo and Chris Davis trying to hit .220.

Getting rid of the shift helps eliminate 3 outcome baseball, which you say you hate.  That's why they are doing it.

[DrungoHazewood]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Getting rid of the shift helps eliminate 3 outcome baseball, which you say you hate.  That's why they are doing it.

No it doesn't.  It incentivizes three true outcome players who are most hurt by the shift.  Joey Gallo and Chris Davis would give their firstborn sons to hit into a regular defensive alignment. If you're Ichiro or Tony Gwynn nobody is ever shifting on you anyway.

[DrungoHazewood]

37 minutes ago, deward said:

Pretty much this. If you're one of those people who wants to resurrect 1980s style baseball, with less home runs, higher batting averages, more action on the basepaths, etc, (one of the big reasons why people like The Wall, right?) then the shift has to go. 

That's completely backwards.  If you want more contact, sign players who spray the ball around and can't be shifted on.  If you want a lot of big, left-handed power hitters who do nothing but K, BB, and HR, ban the shift and watch them proliferate as they hit .250 instead of .210 since the defense is no longer allowed to stand where they know the ball will be hit.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No it doesn't.  It incentivizes three true outcome players who are most hurt by the shift.  Joey Gallo and Chris Davis would give their firstborn sons to hit into a regular defensive alignment. If you're Ichiro or Tony Gwynn nobody is ever shifting on you anyway.

 

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No it doesn't.  It incentivizes three true outcome players who are most hurt by the shift.  Joey Gallo and Chris Davis would give their firstborn sons to hit into a regular defensive alignment. If you're Ichiro or Tony Gwynn nobody is ever shifting on you anyway.

Since shifts have become a much more in thing to do, we have seen a big increase in launch angles and things like that.  The adjustment the players have made to the shift is to hit it over the shift.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, ChuckS said:

I’m against eliminating the shift in theory but in practicality it will make the game more enjoyable to watch.

More hits, more guys on base. The game needs that. 

What the game needs is a mound at 63' or 65' to lower strikeouts and let players who spray the ball all over and can't be shifted to flourish. 

I think it's nonsense to encourage and incentivize players who can only hit the ball in a slice of the field between 1st and 2nd by telling the defense they can't stand where they know the ball is going.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Since shifts have become a much more in thing to do, we have seen a big increase in launch angles and things like that.  The adjustment the players have made to the shift is to hit it over the shift.

Sure, that was one reaction to shifts.  But if they ban the shift that's not going to stop. It's just going to take all the players like Gallo and make them more viable players by bumping up their Mendoza-line batting averages 20, 30, 40 points.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Sure, that was one reaction to shifts.  But if they ban the shift that's not going to stop. It's just going to take all the players like Gallo and make them more viable players by bumping up their Mendoza-line batting averages 20, 30, 40 points.

I mean, we don’t know that it will stop.  Don’t get me wrong, players will still try to hit homers but it’s certainly very possible we see more guys trying to just be better all around hitters again.  

This 3 outcome craze has really become a thing during the last 5-10 years.  Maybe nothing changes but that is why they are getting rid of it imo.  It’s not to help Joey Gallo…it’s to try to foster the idea of doing more with the bat and trying to cause more action.

[Yossarian]

9 hours ago, LookinUp said:

I've said this elsewhere, but if I were Elias, I'd make sure all of:

Hall

Stowers

Henderson

Rodriguez 

are on the roster and eligible for the playoffs. We'd be a different team by playoff time, but one that is more capable of going toe to toe with the big boys. I'd figure out the innings as I go.

The Rays had David Price come out of the bullpen for one of their runs. He was electric. We can do that too.

Can you picture Gunnar Henderson having a Randy Arozarena type playoff run?

[Can_of_corn]

42 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Getting rid of the shift helps eliminate 3 outcome baseball, which you say you hate.  That's why they are doing it.

I think it's mostly about old people yelling at clouds.