So...uh, when does free agency start?

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Fine by me. They have to make a significant upgrade to the rotation. Then I would be in play later on in the off-season to see who is left. I could see the logic in a Lyles or a Manaea as a secondary piece depending on cost. 
 

The current rotation has some upside but it concerns me. No real proven commodities and an innings limit for GRod. I still think GRod should start in pen for half year and be in rotation second half to control innings. When he starts he will probably be a 5 IP.  
 

The fascinating part to me is the lineup. If they are legitimately going to make a some upgrades then they will have no choice but to make trades. Could also add a secondary SP that way as well. 

Grayson's  limitations is a concern for next season. Realistically was should not expect over 120. Obviously we know the need for a TOR, but we do need a solid innings eater too. 

While I like Wells, Kremer and Bradish/Voth to an extent, I'm not sure they can be counted on for getting us those yeoman's innings more time than not. 

 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, LTO's said:

I think you all are being way too harsh on Kremer. It's highly unlikely he finishes with a better ERA than he had last year (3.23 is very low) but his underlying metrics are not nearly as bad as people are saying in this thread. He was very similar to a guy like Jameson Taillon. Not a lot of Ks but he's in the zone, doesn't walk people and has good spin on his pitches. That's not a TOR profile, but let's not lie about the metrics if we're gonna use them in arguments. 

He threw a lot of strikes last year, something he really hadn’t done before, so he needs to repeat that.

Many of his peripherals and statcast numbers were subpar. I’d be ecstatic with a 4.25 ERA and 150+ innings next year.  I don’t even buy that being terribly likely.

[Going Underground]

27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’ve heard Kremer’s mother thinks so, too. 

A Jewish mother who wanted Kremer to be a doctor or a lawyer 

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Grayson's  limitations is a concern for next season. Realistically was should not expect over 120. Obviously we know the need for a TOR, but we do need a solid innings eater too. 

While I like Wells, Kremer and Bradish/Voth to an extent, I'm not sure they can be counted on for getting us those yeoman's innings more time than not. 

 

Every single SP we have is a question mark (as usual). 

Wells - coming off injury/do we need him in the 'pen
Kremer - first good season in the bigs
Voth - first good season in the bigs
Means - no idea when he'd come back
Grayson - rookie/innings limit
Bradish - coming off hit and miss rookie season
Lyles - gone
Hall - rough ML debut/is he a reliever
 

Depth:
A. Wells - not a guy you want in the rotation for more than a start or two
Zimmermann - spot starter
Watkins - smoke and mirrors mostly
Rom - rookie/soft-tossing lefty

I mean, we NEED to supplement the rotation this off-season. 

[turtlebowl]

1 hour ago, tabletop said:

I hope you're right but you are the only person I've seen that expects him to get better.

I'm actually not sure why most are down on our own internal options.  I don't think anyone from last season is a future ace but having a rotation with a few low cost league average guys is a huge benefit for the roster management .  

Now the discussion could be are guys like Kremer expected to be league average next year.  Can't you say that about most pitchers in rotations besides a select few with extensive track records?  Those guys are also making upwards of 15 to 20 million more a year than our internal guys.  

I am of the opinion that we need pitching to make a run.  The thing I don't want is to spend 15 million a year on a guy that may not really move the needle compared to what we have.  If we are bringing in pitching lets go all in and get an ace because we can afford it because we have cheap options to fill the bottom of our rotation.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Every single SP we have is a question mark (as usual). 

Wells - coming off injury/do we need him in the 'pen
Kremer - first good season in the bigs
Voth - first good season in the bigs
Means - no idea when he'd come back
Grayson - rookie/innings limit
Bradish - coming off hit and miss rookie season
Lyles - gone
Hall - rough ML debut/is he a reliever
 

Depth:
A. Wells - not a guy you want in the rotation for more than a start or two
Zimmermann - spot starter
Watkins - smoke and mirrors mostly
Rom - rookie/soft-tossing lefty

I mean, we NEED to supplement the rotation this off-season. 

I agree they need to add a starter and maybe a reliever.

But with all the above said the O's won 83.  And after Adley was called up the team played  .549 ball.   That is an 89 win pace.    The O's add full seasons of Adley, Gunnar,  Grayson, Stowers and Westburg and partial season of Ortiz, Hall, Cowser and Norby.   Plus add 2 or 3 veterans.    Sounds like a team that can win in the 90s.

[clapdiddy]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

Every single SP we have is a question mark (as usual). 

Wells - coming off injury/do we need him in the 'pen
Kremer - first good season in the bigs
Voth - first good season in the bigs
Means - no idea when he'd come back
Grayson - rookie/innings limit
Bradish - coming off hit and miss rookie season
Lyles - gone
Hall - rough ML debut/is he a reliever
 

Depth:
A. Wells - not a guy you want in the rotation for more than a start or two
Zimmermann - spot starter
Watkins - smoke and mirrors mostly
Rom - rookie/soft-tossing lefty

I mean, we NEED to supplement the rotation this off-season. 

An upgrade to the starting pitching is definitely needed.  I think the O's need 2 starters that are not in the organization right now.   We have no idea if any starter from last year is going to replicate what they did this season.    If they pitch great, that's a good thing.   They will get a chance to pitch...if not in Baltimore, then elsewhere.   Plus, we know there will be injuries, dead arms, etc. throughout the season.   

Adding a guy like Bassitt and perhaps another via trade (like Lopez) is smart management.  

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, interloper said:

Every single SP we have is a question mark (as usual). 

Wells - coming off injury/do we need him in the 'pen
Kremer - first good season in the bigs
Voth - first good season in the bigs
Means - no idea when he'd come back
Grayson - rookie/innings limit
Bradish - coming off hit and miss rookie season
Lyles - gone
Hall - rough ML debut/is he a reliever
 

Depth:
A. Wells - not a guy you want in the rotation for more than a start or two
Zimmermann - spot starter
Watkins - smoke and mirrors mostly
Rom - rookie/soft-tossing lefty

I mean, we NEED to supplement the rotation this off-season. 

Agreed. I do think Elias knows this though. 

Now that I'm done with most of my prospects stuff, I can focus a bit more on doing some analysis of Kremer, Wells, Bradish and Voth.

 

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I agree they need to add a starter and maybe a reliever.

But with all the above said the O's won 83.  And after Adley was called up the team played  .549 ball.   That is an 89 win pace.    The O's add full seasons of Adley, Gunnar,  Grayson, Stowers and Westburg and partial season of Ortiz, Hall, Cowser and Norby.   Plus add 2 or 3 veterans.    Sounds like a team that can win in the 90s.

Absolutely. But as a GM I feel like your job is to be extremely paranoid lol. Not necessarily due to not believing in your players, but mostly re: injuries. If Elias assumes Grayson's arm will blow up in Spring Training, he's doing it right. Like Tony said, I think Elias knows this. He's obviously in the market for a starter or two. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by interloper

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

Absolutely. But as a GM I feel like your job is to be extremely paranoid lol. Not necessarily due to not believing in your players, but mostly re: injuries. If Elias assumes Grayson's arm will blow up in Spring Training, he's doing it right. 

I don't think Elias is paranoid.  He is just aware.

[Camden Yards]

Let’s get Rodon or Bassitt and Kluber. They will give us 160-200IP. Kluber can slot into the three spot depending how good GROD.

Bassitt/Rodon

Kluber

GROD

Kremer

Bradish/Wells

Would 2yr 20 million get it done for Kluber? Bassit 3yr 60million?

Voth, Wells or Bradish in the pen, and eventually Means will provide depth and to take over or help with innings limits that GROD will probably have. The Orioles definitely can make this happen. Left handed bat, back up catcher, and maybe another good reliever too? We do these things and I believe we can win the division. 
 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Kremer's underlying metrics suggest that he got lucky to some degree last year and was not as good as his ERA suggests at face value. He still deserves to be in the rotation next year, but I would prefer to have a couple of reliable, established guys ahead of him.

So no upside value on a 26 year old that really just completed a full season in the majors?

[Roll Tide]

 

[Roll Tide]

2374 followers 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Roll Tide

[Roll Tide]