So...uh, when does free agency start?

[Yardball85]

Just now, interloper said:

God forbid we actually reach the expenditure of the Tampa Bay Rays, who by the way, do spend on free agents. 

The entire, 25 man roster should be home grown and making the minimum.  The poor Angeloses should be able to spend as little as possible and keep as much as they can.  That's what's important to fans, not the Orioles themselves. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

But wouldn't you rather take that chance than spend any of the Angelos's money? I mean, it's their money! What do you expect, them to spend it to make the team better? 

If we can't win it all while giving the Angelos family the highest profit margin in MLB, have we really won anything at all?

[Yardball85]

1 minute ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

If we can't win it all while giving the Angelos family the highest profit margin in MLB, have we really won anything at all?

[Roll Tide]

4 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Anything can happen, of course, but acting like Dean Kremer or Austin Voth has a better chance of being a quality starter in 2023 than, say, Chris Bassitt, is just silly.

So what tells you that Kremer can’t be as good as Bassitt. He’s only 26 and still has time to improve. He was very solid for us nearly every time out. He should pitch 170-180 innings this year and some minor improvement on his WHP their stats would be nearly identical. Bassitt is 33 and while not really old yet I doubt he’s getting any better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tabletop]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Love Big Ben..but this is a horrible idea.

Why do you think that? He was always pretty solid in Oakland.

[interloper]

It's just funny when people think we should stay the course on "prospects only" forever. Those people didn't listen to Mike Elias when he was hired. He gave us the blueprint right out of the gate; he's always said we'll spend once things were shored up. 

You can't run a winning organization by NOT spending. The Rays spend. Not much, but they participate more than the Orioles have in the past 5 years. You have to expect at least that level of free agency participation. To think that Elias/John Angelos are going to make another highly questionable signing like Davis is pretty silly. At the very least, a large free agency signing like that would be backed up by a lot more research, data, etc. and on a much better overall player (i.e.: not a 1B with enormous strikeout concerns). 

Edited November 30, 2022 by interloper

[owknows]

3 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

I don't mean that as anything personal.  But you are way too optimistic and assuming that everyone will perform as well, or better, than last year.  I would not count on Kremer, Bradish, Wells, and Voth all pitching well and locking down spots in the rotation.

And yes, we should trade some outfielders.  But why are you so against spending money on free agents?  We have one of the lowest payrolls in the majors.  This is EXACTLY what a successful rebuild looks like - having a cheap, young core, and supplementing it with veterans via free agency and trade.  That's what they need to do.  Thankfully, I think Elias agrees.  And unless you are an Angelos and your personal dollars would be going to these players, I cannot imagine why you are against that. 

I see lavish FA spending as counter-productive to a small market team's long term success. I also see it as detrimental to the game.

I'd think it likely, and perhaps even reasonable that the team would add a free agent middle of the rotation guy, paying perhaps a little more than they spent for Lyles. But if they can get more years of control, and a younger emerging arm by trading away players that they HAVE to trade away anyway.. why not do that? It would seem more effective and less risky... Might even offer more in-season roster flexibility It also clears the way for AAA graduations which will otherwise form a logjam.

I guess I just don't understand the overwhelming drive to spend money just because you can.

And I particularly don't understand the emotional histrionics leveled at anyone who suggests that trades might be more effective than FA signings in improving the roster of a team that has been losing for some time. It's been a little silly really.

 

 

[Roll Tide]

 

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

I see lavish FA spending as counter-productive to a small market team's long term success. I also see it as detrimental to the game.

I'd think it likely, and perhaps even reasonable that the team would add a free agent middle of the rotation guy, paying perhaps a little more than they spent for Lyles. But if they can get more years of control, and a younger emerging arm by trading away players that they HAVE to trade away anyway.. why not do that? It would seem more effective and less risky... Might even offer more in-season roster flexibility It also clears the way for AAA graduations which will otherwise form a logjam.

I guess I just don't understand the overwhelming drive to spend money just because you can.

And I particularly don't understand the emotional histrionics leveled at anyone who suggests that trades might be more effective than FA signings in improving the roster of a team that has been losing for some time. It's been a little silly really.

 

Is anyone saying we should spend lavishly? That might be fun, but all indications are the Orioles are not really in the top-tier SP or SS markets. So any spending would be pretty reasonable and risk-averse. And purposeful: upgrade the rotation with a veteran guy who is better than Lyles. Upgrade the bench with a decent LH bat. These aren't unreasonable asks. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by interloper

[tabletop]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

So what tells you that Kremer can’t be as good as Bassitt. He’s only 26 and still has time to improve. He was very solid for us nearly every time out. He should pitch 170-180 innings this year and some minor improvement on his WHP their stats would be nearly identical. Bassitt is 33 and while not really old yet I doubt he’s getting any better.

Bassitt career K/9 is 8.2 while Kremer's is 7.1.
Bassitt career ERA is 3.45 while Kremer's is 4.55.
Bassitt career ERA+ is 118 while Kremer's is 92.
Bassitt career FIP is 3.81 while Kremer's is 4.57.

I know Kremer was great last year but what he did last year is about what you can expect from Bassitt. I don't think most expect Kremer to repeat last year. Even last year Kremer's FIP was 3.80.

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, tabletop said:

Bassitt career K/9 is 8.2 while Kremer's is 7.1.
Bassitt career ERA is 3.45 while Kremer's is 4.55.
Bassitt career ERA+ is 118 while Kremer's is 92.
Bassitt career FIP is 3.81 while Kremer's is 4.57.

I know Kremer was great last year but what he did last year is about what you can expect from Bassitt. I don't think most expect Kremer to repeat last year. Even last year Kremer's FIP was 3.80.

Also, it's like ... here's a thought: Bassitt AND Kremer in the rotation! Lol. That's still very likely even with a Bassitt signing. 

Pitching depth! At least 2 of the guys we think are going to make a bunch of starts for the O's probably won't. That's how you have to approach the rotation every year. They all break. It's why guys like Voth and Watkins even made starts last year. Zimmermann flamed out, Means got hurt, Wells got hurt. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, tabletop said:

Why do you think that? He was always pretty solid in Oakland.

His stat cast numbers are pretty horrible.

He doesn’t miss bats.

Prone to the HR ball.

Coming off a bad year with a mediocre FIP. Just don’t see much upside at all. Maybe he is better than Lyles but I don’t think by a lot and certainly not to give him a multi year deal.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, tabletop said:

Bassitt career K/9 is 8.2 while Kremer's is 7.1.
Bassitt career ERA is 3.45 while Kremer's is 4.55.
Bassitt career ERA+ is 118 while Kremer's is 92.
Bassitt career FIP is 3.81 while Kremer's is 4.57.

I know Kremer was great last year but what he did last year is about what you can expect from Bassitt. I don't think most expect Kremer to repeat last year. Even last year Kremer's FIP was 3.80.

Kremer wasn’t great last year. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So what tells you that Kremer can’t be as good as Bassitt. He’s only 26 and still has time to improve. He was very solid for us nearly every time out. He should pitch 170-180 innings this year and some minor improvement on his WHP their stats would be nearly identical. Bassitt is 33 and while not really old yet I doubt he’s getting any better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kremer's underlying metrics suggest that he got lucky to some degree last year and was not as good as his ERA suggests at face value. He still deserves to be in the rotation next year, but I would prefer to have a couple of reliable, established guys ahead of him.

[Yardball85]

6 minutes ago, owknows said:

I see lavish FA spending as counter-productive to a small market team's long term success. I also see it as detrimental to the game.

I'd think it likely, and perhaps even reasonable that the team would add a free agent middle of the rotation guy, paying perhaps a little more than they spent for Lyles. But if they can get more years of control, and a younger emerging arm by trading away players that they HAVE to trade away anyway.. why not do that? It would seem more effective and less risky... Might even offer more in-season roster flexibility It also clears the way for AAA graduations which will otherwise form a logjam.

I guess I just don't understand the overwhelming drive to spend money just because you can.

And I particularly don't understand the emotional histrionics leveled at anyone who suggests that trades might be more effective than FA signings in improving the roster of a team that has been losing for some time. It's been a little silly really.

 

 

Again, they should be trading players AND signing free agents.  They should not foreclose any avenues to improve the team.  And frankly, I could not care less that they are crying about being a "small market team" now.  They have spent money in the past, they have a low payroll, and they can and should spend money to improve the team now.