Rosenthal: Overloaded with star prospects, Orioles need to determine how to escalate the team’s rise

[LTO's]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He traded Yaz. 

As soon as I hit send without specifying 'big leaguer' I knew you would respond with this lol. Your commitment to this bit is not declining. Unlike Yaz 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

As soon as I hit send without specifying 'big leaguer' I knew you would respond with this lol. Your commitment to this bit is not declining. Unlike Yaz 

I replied because

1. It's accurate
2. It's funny

I did not have an issue with trading Yaz at the time and I did not expect him to become anything.

It was a freak baseball thing that happens.

It is useful to keep the Elias can do no wrong folks in check.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I replied because

1. It's accurate
2. It's funny

I did not have an issue with trading Yaz at the time and I did not expect him to become anything.

It was a freak baseball thing that happens.

It is useful to keep the Elias can do no wrong folks in check.

Do you really think you’re keeping this real or imaginary group in check?

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Do you really think you’re keeping this real or imaginary group in check?

 

Naw, I'm just one man, even if I do post a lot.

[LTO's]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I replied because

1. It's accurate
2. It's funny

I did not have an issue with trading Yaz at the time and I did not expect him to become anything.

It was a freak baseball thing that happens.

It is useful to keep the Elias can do no wrong folks in check.

And I'm replying because you always mention him without fail. I don't think Elias can do no wrong but if this is the best example of him being wrong I think we're in great shape. He basically had a fluke year's worth of games of being really good and outside of that, he's been about as good as Austin Hays who most think should be traded immediately. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LTO's said:

And I'm replying because you always mention him without fail. I don't think Elias can do no wrong but if this is the best example of him being wrong I think we're in great shape. He basically had a fluke year's worth of games of being really good and outside of that, he's been about as good as Austin Hays who most think should be traded immediately. 

I have no issues at all with getting Hays level performance out of guys before they hit arb 2.  If you can pay a guy a the league minimum and get 1.8 WAR out of them, that's value.

I wouldn't sign either one of them to a long term deal.

[LTO's]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 If we have a surplus in a spot that can be traded to acquire players in areas where we are short, I think Elias will move if he likes the deal even if the players traded have some years of control remaining.  

I think so too but I don't think it's realistic to think all of these guys are going to be able to be traded. Barring a complete collapse in production I'd prefer to keep Santander and Mullins around for as long as possible rather than trade them for a middling return just to get some "value." There's nothing inherently wrong with keeping players until their contracts run out. It seems like some people religiously believe that there is. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, LTO's said:

I think so too but I don't think it's realistic to think all of these guys are going to be able to be traded. Barring a complete collapse in production I'd prefer to keep Santander and Mullins around for as long as possible rather than trade them for a middling return just to get some "value." There's nothing inherently wrong with keeping players until their contracts run out. It seems like some people religiously believe that there is. 

So would you have done the Mancini deal last year?  Without and with the benefit of hindsight.

[LTO's]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I have no issues at all with getting Hays level performance out of guys before they hit arb 2.  If you can pay a guy a the league minimum and get 1.8 WAR out of them, that's value.

I wouldn't sign either one of them to a long term deal.

Yeah I mean it would have been nice if he got the playing time Stevie Wilkerson did in 2019 but outside of that it's a big meh. After that year they gave the ABs to younger guys like Hays, Mullins, Santander and DJ Stewart (who I did not know was 3.5 years younger than Yaz). I wonder if they would've been able to get anything of value for him if he had similar success here. His age and the general scouting consensus on him when he was in the minors would make that a tricky situation. 

[LTO's]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So would you have done the Mancini deal last year?  Without and with the benefit of hindsight.

I would have done the Mancini deal for that return. I think that was more than most thought we'd get back for him plus he was showing signs of wearing down as we approached the deadline. I don't think I would have done the Lopez trade but ultimately I don't think either meaningfully affected their playoff chances like some do. 

[Jagwar]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

He is.  Bradish, Povich, McDermott, Seth Johnson, Cole Irvin, and more.  All traded for.

Are any of those prime pitching prospects?

[CaptDbog]

2 hours ago, LTO's said:

 

None of these are comparable to the players being discussed now. Lopez would be the closest but he's also a reliever. He had his eventual replacement show he was capable at the big league level which is what I'm talking about. The prospects need to be phased in and show they are better than the vets we have now. If they aren't, and you traded your big leaguers away with years of control left, that is worse than keeping them as starters for a half year-year too long. 

I think we have different views on what how they are similar.  I think Santander, Hays, and Urias are all comparable to Mancini, Lopez, and Bundy.  Role players who are not part of the core.  

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Are any of those prime pitching prospects?

Bradish is a promising young starting pitcher.   That’s just as good.   Povich, McDermott, and Seth Johnson are solid pitching prospects.  What’s prime?   Painter, Perez, and Rodriguez?

Edited March 2, 2023 by RZNJ

[LTO's]

5 minutes ago, CaptDbog said:

I think we have different views on what how they are similar.  I think Santander, Hays, and Urias are all comparable to Mancini, Lopez, and Bundy.  Role players who are not part of the core.  

At this stage the calculation is different. If Santander gives you 30+ HRs and Urias gives you a steady to plus glove with a solid floor at the plate what would be the return you would need to move on from them? I've said if they can get a true difference maker for the big league team for those guys, sure. I don't think those offers are on the table right now so I'd keep them and not rush anything because I'm scared I won't get the max "value" for them. 

[Jagwar]

Bradish had a good half year, which is surely promising. Povich, McDermott and Johnson seem more like projects with some promise. 

I admit "prime" is somewhat subjective. I'll suggest prime pitching prospects would be expected to be at least a #3 starter on any ML team, pitchers that would be top 10 prospects in any system, pitchers that would make us as giddy as we feel about our top position prospects.