Bautista 2023

[Sanfran327]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Decent chance of a rainout in Detroit today. 

A potential double header this weekend doesn't help though.

After the last 2 outings, my hope is that we don't see Bautista until Monday at the earliest. He looks gassed, and for good reason. Then again, learning how to pitch effectively when you're exhausted has value as well. Better to figure that out in April than September or later...

[Tony-OH]

His velocity and spin rates were down last night and his command was obviously not good as well. These are all classic signs of being fatigued. 

This is one of the reasons why I did not like seeing him pitching the other day with a 4-run lead. I get it that he was already warmed up, but that's why you have two relievers warm up in the bottom of the 8th so if you get that 4th run, you sit your closer down.

The Orioles have been in a lot of close games, and Hyde has pitched Bautista in 13 games already. I  think you have to hope that we don't need a closer over the next couple of games and he can get at least two days off. There is no way he pitches tonight after 31 pitches last night, so Cano is probably the closer tonight. 

Either way, the good news is he's been able to make pitches when he absolutely needed them and that's the sign of a great closer. He never freaks out and we should appriciate that.

[Sanfran327]

24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that given his long history of having issues with his command and control he's got himself a bit out of whack.

I'm sure that to some degree something like that feeds on itself but I don't think we are in a position to assume the issue is mental.

McDonald talks about how easy it is for tall pitchers to get out of whack mechanically all the time. My guess is that it's fatigue (overuse) leading to a mechanical / timing breakdown. 

[waroriole]

1 hour ago, TommyPickles said:

In fairness, the bullpen has been "really good" so far.

2.74 ERA. Third best in MLB. Better than every team in the National League.

True. How long will that last if Hyde runs everyone into the ground during the weak part of our schedule?

[interloper]

18 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

This is one of the reasons why I did not like seeing him pitching the other day with a 4-run lead. I get it that he was already warmed up, but that's why you have two relievers warm up in the bottom of the 8th so if you get that 4th run, you sit your closer down.

I didn't even like seeing him in the 3-run lead last night. How are MLB managers still this beholden to the save rule? It's not just Hyde so I can't even really be that mad at him. But Akin was pitching fine and the Tigers have a weak offense. I trust Akin to get 3 outs before 3 runs score. 

Hyde has really been pushing for these early wins I guess. Riding Adley and Bautista pretty hard in April. 

[RZNJ]

4 hours ago, waroriole said:

That’s a good point. He basically topped out at 99. After throwing 31 pitches, I’d give him off the rest of the series. 
 

Hyde has to loosen up the reins on the bullpen. It can’t be Bautista/Cano/Baker every game. 

I think Baker and Bautista each need two days off.    We really need to have GRod and Voth take one for the team tonight without putting them at risk.   We need to get at least 8 innings from those 2.   We only need 8 if we lose.   Cano can close if we're up.    For Saturday, we need to use Baumann, Coulombe, Perez, and Akin.   Cano might be able to go back to back if we're up.

 

[DirtyBird]

There is no reason to use him in a 4 run lead, even if you think he needs to get work.

Not even really a need to use him with a 3 run lead (just because someone decided that’s a save opportunity).

Now he has pitched 50+ pitches over two days with a combined 7 run lead and he will be unavailable for a while.

[Spy Fox]

I didn't mind using Bautista in the 6-2 game. In retrospect Akin or Baker may have been better there, but at that point he was the only reliever to have not appeared in the Boston series.

And I don't think he's been too overused compared to many other top flight closers. Hader, Bednar, Clase, Sewald, Minter, Estevez are all there with him at 5+ SV, 12-13 games, 12-13 IPs. Several others are just a couple games/IP behind that and I think the difference is more noise than signal at this point.  

[RZNJ]

I wonder how much is fatigue and how much is Bautista just not feeling comfortable in cooler weather.    It is tougher to get lose and he seems to lose the feel for the splitter.   He's also constantly blowing on his hands so it does bother him.   I didn't notice the other pitchers doing it.    He and Rutschman finally got smart and went with the slider multiple times and he seemed to have a pretty good feel for that.   That slider looks like a plus pitch.    I would hope in the future when he has no feel for the splitter that they go to the slider more.

[Just Regular]

3 hours ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

It was a 2-2 count.  But we all know Schoop doesn't go up to the plate to walk.  

Can we send Ryan Mountcastle back in the time machine to get Hyun-Soo Kim?

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, interloper said:

I didn't even like seeing him in the 3-run lead last night. How are MLB managers still this beholden to the save rule? It's not just Hyde so I can't even really be that mad at him. But Akin was pitching fine and the Tigers have a weak offense. I trust Akin to get 3 outs before 3 runs score. 

Hyde has really been pushing for these early wins I guess. Riding Adley and Bautista pretty hard in April. 

Managing a bullpen has a lot of dynamics to it and for the most part, I think Hyde and company do a good job of managing their relievers. Sayin that, I think he's been overusing Bautista a bit and I'm a big believer in allowing a good reliever to go another inning, even into the 9th with a 3 or more run lead depending on his pitch count and work load. 

Last night probably was a good night to give Bautista a day of and let Akin pitch the 9th, but in the end, he got the save and the Orioles won. Saying that, the chances of Akin or even follow on relievers if Akin struggled giving up the 3-run lead was slim, so I think they could have gotten out of that game with a win and still had a rested Bautista for tonight (weather permitting). 

Maybe, Hyde was thinking the game tonight was going to be washed out so take no chances last night, and if that was his thinking then I can understand that thought process. But it probably did make some sense to let Akin have the 9th and only get Bautista up if he got a few men on.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

I wonder how much is fatigue and how much is Bautista just not feeling comfortable in cooler weather.    It is tougher to get lose and he seems to lose the feel for the splitter.   He's also constantly blowing on his hands so it does bother him.   I didn't notice the other pitchers doing it.    He and Rutschman finally got smart and went with the slider multiple times and he seemed to have a pretty good feel for that.   That slider looks like a plus pitch.    I would hope in the future when he has no feel for the splitter that they go to the slider more.

Interesting point about the cooler weather. It's a know fact that some of the Dominicans struggle in colder weather just because they never really played in it much. Although we really only have last year to go off, Bautista was basically unhittable Jun-Aug when the weather is at it's warmest. 

Either way, he's not getting hit very much and he's still making pitches when he needs to. He's only blown that one McKenna induced save so I think some people expect him to basically be perfect all the time, and that's just not going to happen. 

I'm still comfortable with him closing, but I'd like to see him not used in non save situations unless he hasn't pitched in awhile and needs work. I'd rather him be fresh the next day then waste him with 4-run leads.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

His velocity and spin rates were down last night and his command was obviously not good as well. These are all classic signs of being fatigued. 

This is one of the reasons why I did not like seeing him pitching the other day with a 4-run lead. I get it that he was already warmed up, but that's why you have two relievers warm up in the bottom of the 8th so if you get that 4th run, you sit your closer down.

The Orioles have been in a lot of close games, and Hyde has pitched Bautista in 13 games already. I  think you have to hope that we don't need a closer over the next couple of games and he can get at least two days off. There is no way he pitches tonight after 31 pitches last night, so Cano is probably the closer tonight. 

Either way, the good news is he's been able to make pitches when he absolutely needed them and that's the sign of a great closer. He never freaks out and we should appriciate that.

I have never been a fan of slavishly bringing in the closer every time we have a 3-run lead in the 9th.  That’s a big lead.  Generally, if my closer has pitched the previous day, I’d rather give my closer a rest with a 3-run lead, and keep him available for the following day when there might be a 1- or 2-run lead to be protected.  Especially since Felix hasn’t been that sharp anyway.  

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I have never been a fan of slavishly bringing in the closer every time we have a 3-run lead in the 9th.  That’s a big lead.  Generally, if my closer has pitched the previous day, I’d rather give my closer a rest with a 3-run lead, and keep him available for the following day when there might be a 1- or 2-run lead to be protected.  Especially since Felix hasn’t been that sharp anyway.  

Agreed. Now, I know being an OOTP manage and real manager are two different things, but I do that often when my closer is a little tired or I want him fresh for an upcoming series. I typically have at least two solid setup guys that I will close out those 3-run leads or I'll match up that 9th between my righties and lefties. I always play in the 70s-80s-90s-00s so I don't have to worry about the three batter rule and I was always a La Russa diciple when it came to match ups in the 7th and 8th innings. 

[OriolesMagic83]

5 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

There is no reason to use him in a 4 run lead, even if you think he needs to get work.

Not even really a need to use him with a 3 run lead (just because someone decided that’s a save opportunity).

Now he has pitched 50+ pitches over two days with a combined 7 run lead and he will be unavailable for a while.

One of my only problems w/ Hyde is excessive closer usage.  Would have been nice to give Bautista rest and save him for games he could really make a difference.  If today's game wasn't cancelled and the O's had 1 run games on Friday and Saturday, it would be nice to use our closer.

I believe it would be best to give Bautista off the rest of the weekend.  A couple of days w/o Bautista is much better than a couple of months. 

There seems to be something in baseball against relieving the closer.  No manager feels bad anymore about taking the ball from their ace in the 6th inning w/ a couple of runners on and a lead, but it somehow destroys a closer's confidence when he's taken out.  Sometimes a pitcher doesn't have it, the attitude seems to be the closer must be left in because he's your best pitcher.  He might be your best reliever, but that specific day he might be your worst pitcher and your last guy in the bullpen might be your best pitcher.  This is why I also hate it when a reliever comes in and dominates and gets through an inning in 10 pitches or less and is taken out.  Then another reliever is brought in the next inning and blows the game.