I’m loving our patience at the plate

[emmett16]

There are three components to hitting:

1- bat speed

2- contact ability 

3- swing decisions

The Os have finally addressed #3. 

[Frobby]

26 minutes ago, deward said:

Peak Davis wasn't a walk machine, but he was fairly patient, certainly the most patient guy on those teams. Jones was the leader of the free-swinging pack (looking only at the 2012-2017 run). 

Agreed.  Even Mountcastle is more patient than Jones.  

[banks703]

36 minutes ago, deward said:

Peak Davis wasn't a walk machine, but he was fairly patient, certainly the most patient guy on those teams. Jones was the leader of the free-swinging pack (looking only at the 2012-2017 run). 

No doubt about AJ but Crush and Trumbo were either leading or near the top of the league in Ks in those years. 

[HakunaSakata]

If the team keeps it up they might have to replace "Thank God I'm a Country Boy" with "Patience" by Guns an Roses during the seventh-inning stretch. 

[jabba72]

26 walks in the Chicago series.

O's lead the AL in Walks with 78. (who saw that coming) 2nd in Runs scored with 94.

Like others have said its hard for me to see the trend of leading the AL in Walks lasting, but for now I'll take it.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't know, I think plate discipline is a fairly steady and consistent skill.  I don't think any of these guys are going to stop walking, or significantly decrease the rate at which they walk.  In other words, I don't think plate discipline really slumps...I mean, look at Gunnar...struggling to make contact, struggling to get hits and he's still effective in our lineup because he's so selective.

Barring significant injuries, I can see this team leading the AL in walks.

[Ohfan67]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

I think he was being pitched around.    I can think of at least 4 instances on a 3-2 count where he was thrown a back foot breaking ball out of the zone instead of being challenged in the strike zone.   Unfortunately, he was going bad and struck out on those pitches but I definitely think pitchers have been very careful with him.

Or maybe they were counting on him chasing those pitches. 

[ChuckS]

32 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't know, I think plate discipline is a fairly steady and consistent skill.  I don't think any of these guys are going to stop walking, or significantly decrease the rate at which they walk.  In other words, I don't think plate discipline really slumps...I mean, look at Gunnar...struggling to make contact, struggling to get hits and he's still effective in our lineup because he's so selective.

Barring significant injuries, I can see this team leading the AL in walks.

There is a huge spread right now, between BA and OBP with Gunnar and to a lesser extent, Cedric and Adley.  I don't expect Adley to keep getting on base at a .481 clip or Cedric to get on base at a .375 clip.   Mateo's BA and OBP is going to come way down.  

So yeah, the walk rate is going to come down and we probably won't lead the league.  We should still be above average in that area, but hard to imagine a team with Mountcastle, Hays, and Mateo leading the league in walk.  Those three are not going to suddenly turn into OBP machines and they will be playing every day.  

Edited April 17, 2023 by ChuckS

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, banks703 said:

No doubt about AJ but Crush and Trumbo were either leading or near the top of the league in Ks in those years. 

There’s a difference between striking out a lot and swinging at bad pitches, though the two are often related.  For example, Mark Reynolds had good strike zone judgment, he just swung and missed at a lot of pitches that were in the strike zone.  Jones on the other hand rarely missed a pitch in the strike zone, but was never able to lay off breaking pitches down and out of the strike zone, even when every person in the stadium knew they were coming.  

Looking at 2016, Davis swing at pitches out of the zone 28.2% of the time, Trumbo 33.8%, Jones a massive 44.8%.  
 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Frobby

[Moose Milligan]

20 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

There is a huge spread right now, between BA and OBP with Gunnar and to a lesser extent, Cedric and Adley.  I don't expect Adley to keep getting on base at a .481 clip or Cedric to get on base at a .375 clip.   Mateo's BA and OBP is going to come way down.  

So yeah, the walk rate is going to come down and we probably won't lead the league.  We should still be above average in that area, but hard to imagine a team with Mountcastle, Hays, and Mateo leading the league in walk.  Those three are not going to suddenly turn into OBP machines and they will be playing every day.  

Fair.  But I don't see Adley being over .400 being out of the question.  In regards to Cedric, if he's cutting down on his swing and not hitting for as much power (especially hitting in front of Adley), I can see him in the .375 range.  He was at .360 in his career year, I don't think it's entirely impossible for him.

 

 

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Fair.  But I don't see Adley being over .400 being out of the question. 

I’d be shocked if he wasn’t over .400.  He was at .399 in the second half of last year, and he’s only getting better.   

[banks703]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There’s a difference between striking out a lot and swinging at bad pitches, though the two are often related.  For example, Mark Reynolds had good strike zone judgment, he just swung and missed at a lot of pitches that were in the strike zone.  Jones on the other hand rarely missed a pitch in the strike zone, but was never able to lay off breaking pitches down and out of the strike zone, even when every person in the stadium knew they were coming.  

No doubt but that takes us back to my original point of sometimes being too selective. For Gunnar it's not a matter of whether or not he recognizes the pitches or his feel for the zone. It seems like he's holding out for the best pitch to hit but the way that they are pitching him right now, the best pitch in an AB might be the first pitch or at least earlier in the count. 

 

I have no complaints with Gunnar's approach other than I would like to see him attack a little more earlier in the count. 

[Orioles Jim]

Adam Frazier’s OBP isn’t quite there yet(  0.333), but I bet it goes up at least a bit (call it a  hunch).

I was as much against his signing as anyone but he definitely doesn’t seem like a free swinger and he has seemed patient (anecdotal, so I could be wrong statistically).

In that sense, I do now see where he fits in. It makes the Odor “fit” last year that more confounding though, I will say.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, banks703 said:

No doubt but that takes us back to my original point of sometimes being too selective. For Gunnar it's not a matter of whether or not he recognizes the pitches or his feel for the zone. It seems like he's holding out for the best pitch to hit but the way that they are pitching him right now, the best pitch in an AB might be the first pitch or at least earlier in the count. 

 

I have no complaints with Gunnar's approach other than I would like to see him attack a little more earlier in the count. 

If you look at the post from @Spy Foxin the Gunnar thread, you will see support for your position.  I’d still rather have Gunnar have this problem than the opposite one of swinging at too many terrible pitches.   I’m confident he’ll adjust and find the right balance.  

[RZNJ]

You'll notice that Gunnar has served some balls into LF and his swing looks so much smoother when he's not overswinging which is what he was doing before.   This approach will do for now and then he'll start turning on balls and hitting some homers.   He was trying to do too much before.