Joey Ortiz 2023

[rm5678]

1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I bet the next lefties we face, he's at 2b, Santander is in RF, McCann catching and Adley DHing.

We're facing lefties tonight, tomorrow night, and Saturday.

[Going Underground]

1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

I think the Orioles need another actual outfielder on the roster (not Vavra or Frazier). Whether that is Cowser or Stowers or even Hudson Haskin, I don't understand carrying 2 backup middle infielders and only one backup outfielder.

I don't see how there is enough playing time for Ortiz without additional moves, especially against right-handed pitching.

I do suspect this may be a short-term move, but time will tell.

O'Hearn played one game in the outfield for the Orioles. Also has played some outfield for KC. 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

You might as well be saying that. Because exposing Zimmerman to get Westburg would be dumb when there is not much other starting pitching depth on the 40 man roster

I hear you passion for starting pitching depth which makes sense given that it will most likely be needed at some point. However, do you have any confidence in any game that Zimmerman has to start? We are most likely to be in trouble in that scenario. 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

You might as well be saying that. Because exposing Zimmerman to get Westburg would be dumb when there is not much other starting pitching depth on the 40 man roster

I hear you passion for starting pitching depth which makes sense given that it will most likely be needed at some point. However, do you have any confidence in any game that Zimmerman has to start? We are most likely to be in trouble in that scenario. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I bet the next lefties we face, he's at 2b, Santander is in RF, McCann catching and Adley DHing.

Yup. With McKenna in LF while Hays heals. 

[emmett16]

13 minutes ago, waroriole said:

How many ABs is that?

Ortiz ~160 Westburg ~420

[Brooks The Great]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

How do you know how much playing time he is going to get?

Not enough, because Frazier is blocking him. Ortiz would have started the season on the Opening Day roster if Elias hadn't foolishly flushed $8 million down the toilet and signed Frazier. So Ortiz has already gotten less playing time than he should have by this point if Elias had properly utilized his own prospect resources during the offseason.

[Just Regular]

53 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

Another indication that we are in our competitive window......Vavra is still a decent prospect and despite demoting him to AAA it's still going to be challenging to find him at-bats. 

Cowser-Hays, Kjerstad-Santander, Mayo-Mountcastle and Holliday-Ortiz are all 1st string changes I could fathom happening in 2023 in the very best scenarios.

Are Hays, Santander and Mountcastle 2nd division starters or more?    I am confident Mullins is more in a way I'm not for any of those others where in the past I'd lumped him in with them as Adley's Early Supporting Cast.

To put it in the ether:

LF Cowser, C Adley, DH Ohtani, 3B Gunnar, RF Kjerstad, 1B Mayo, CF Mullins, SS Mateo, 2B Holliday

Saves Hyde chopping the onion of which sensitive conversation with Hays/Santander/Mountcastle he has to have first.

I expect if dealt Ohtani will return less than say Jordan Westburg, Cole Irvin and Anthony Santander.   That's virtually payroll neutral.    Iron sharpening iron - it isn't just Ramon Urias playing for his most days gig this summer.

[DirtyBird]

18 minutes ago, HandsomeQuack said:

I think Irvin, DL Hall, Watkins, and Voth would all be ahead of him. He's 28 and has already gotten his chances

How old are Voth and Watkins? And DL Hall has done nothing to earn a spot in the rotation so far this season.

[Brooks The Great]

15 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I think he and Frazier will run a pretty strict platoon tbh.  I don't forsee Frazier in the outfield much, and if he's needed out there, then they need to get a true outfielder on the roster.

I wasn't opposed to Mateo getting some spring training run in the OF, but with the way he is playing, it would be crazy imo to mess with it now.

I agree that this is the way it starts out, but hopefully Ortiz produces and Frazier shows that he's the inferior player to the point that Frazier gets benched permanently as a utility player, and the last guy on the roster (meaning McKenna and O'Hearn are gone).

Frazier truly is this season's Odor. Frazier is just a marginally better, far more expensive version.

[DirtyBird]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hear you passion for starting pitching depth which makes sense given that it will most likely be needed at some point. However, do you have any confidence in any game that Zimmerman has to start? We are most likely to be in trouble in that scenario. 

If the starter can hold a team to 4 runs over 5 innings, I have confidence we can win the game.

[interloper]

While I like Vavra, it's nice to be rid of the redundancy between he and Frazier. It just didn't make a lot of sense, though Vavra absolutely deserved to make the team out of spring training and I'm glad he did. 

Now you can, in theory, have a strict platoon at 2B with Frazier. Against LHP, you have the option of putting out an all-RH infield with Urias at 3B, Mateo at SS, Ortiz at 2B. I doubt that happens much because Gunnar needs to play, but it's nice to have the option. 

Vavra just wasn't adding much against RHP, so it is what it is. Other guys like O'Hearn fill that role better, and Frazier has been okay if uninspiring. 

Eventually, I think you replace O'Hearn with Cowser and now you're really cooking with gas. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by interloper

[deward]

2 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Cowser-Hays, Kjerstad-Santander, Mayo-Mountcastle and Holliday-Ortiz are all 1st string changes I could fathom happening in 2023 in the very best scenarios.

Are Hays, Santander and Mountcastle 2nd division starters or more?    I am confident Mullins is more in a way I'm not for any of those others where in the past I'd lumped him in with them as Adley's Early Supporting Cast.

To put it in the ether:

LF Cowser, C Adley, DH Ohtani, 3B Gunnar, RF Kjerstad, 1B Mayo, CF Mullins, SS Mateo, 2B Holliday

Saves Hyde chopping the onion of which sensitive conversation with Hays/Santander/Mountcastle he has to have first.

I expect if dealt Ohtani will return less than say Jordan Westburg, Cole Irvin and Anthony Santander.   That's virtually payroll neutral.    Iron sharpening iron - it isn't just Ramon Urias playing for his most days gig this summer.

I'll eat one of my hats if Holliday is on this team at any point in 2023. And I'd be very surprised if Mayo or Kjerstad get anything other than a Sept cup of coffee. Cowser taking the job from Hays strikes me as the only realistic possibility here, but that won't happen either if Hays keeps hitting. The Angels aren't dealing Ohtani unless they completely collapse between now and July.

[HandsomeQuack]

7 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

How old are Voth and Watkins? And DL Hall has done nothing to earn a spot in the rotation so far this season.

The point isn't that Zimmerman is too old to play baseball, it's that he's as best a Triple-A starter and given his age that is unlikely to change. Watkins and Voth have shown more at the major league level in recent years. Neither one is very good, of course, but the Zimmerman bar is extremely low. And yes, I would rather roll the dice on D.L.

[deward]

26 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

You sure?  

Ortiz career OPS at AAA is 0.937.  Westburg's is .886.  And Ortiz has the better glove by just about all accounts.

Again the 40-man may have been a consideration but you can easily make the case that Ortiz is the better prospect anyway.

I have more faith that Westburg will hold his offensive value at the ML level than Ortiz. Which isn't to say that I don't think Ortiz will hit.