The reason this good team(Orioles) will not be a great team

[wildcard]

2.81

That was the ERA of the O's starters vs the Braves.   5 runs in 16 innings.   That was against a team with the 2nd best OPS in the MLB.     I think they did great.   You can complain about them not going an inning or two longer but I'd rather say 2.81 is pretty darn good.

Edited May 8, 2023 by wildcard

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Who says that a young team can’t be good to start the season and then develop into a great team by September. Gunnar and Grayson are big parts of that. If Grayson is a consistent TOR type and if Gunnar can be an .800 OPS player. Watch out. 

I think this is a key point.  If you look at last year, our starting pitching got better as the year went along.  They had a 4.62 ERA and averaged 4.76 IP/start before the all star break, 4.03 ERA and 5.20 IP/start after the ASB.  Where you start isn’t necessarily where you finish.  

That said, it isn’t a given that this staff will improve.  Nor do I think that last year’s level of improvement would be enough for this to be a “great” team.  But I do hope for improvement, and think it’s realistic to expect some.  

FWIW, the AL average so far this year is 5.2 IP/start, and the league leader is Minnesota at 5.6.   The O’s are 9th at 5.1.  Tampa Bay is last at 4.6, though they continue to play the “opener” game about 40% of the time.  None of their true starters are averaging 6 IP per start, though.  

There are only 8 AL pitchers averaging 6+ IP/start: Cole, Bieber, Valdez, Eovaldi, E. Rodriguez, J. Ryan, P. Lopez, and Gausman.  This ain’t exactly the days of Palmer, McNally and Cuellar, or even Roy Halladay or Sabathia.  
 

[Il BuonO]

Bah, they had opportunities and didn’t capitalize. Also, pitchers not going deep into games isn’t a recent trend, it’s been happening for a while.

[Aristotelian]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

FWIW, the AL average so far this year is 5.2 IP/start, and the league leader is Minnesota at 5.6.   The O’s are 9th at 5.1.  Tampa Bay is last at 4.6, though they continue to play the “opener” game about 40% of the time.  None of their true starters are averaging 6 IP per start, though.  
 

I don't know how the Rays are doing it. We really need to study their roster management and innings distribution. How their bullpen can absorb even more innings than ours without burning out is a mystery.  If we aren't going to spend dollars or trade capital on an Ace we need to figure this out. 

[Moshagge3]

7 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know how the Rays are doing it. We really need to study their roster management and innings distribution. How their bullpen can absorb even more innings than ours without burning out is a mystery.  If we aren't going to spend dollars or trade capital on an Ace we need to figure this out. 

They do burn out, they just crank out great pitchers in such volume it doesn't matter. Their IL has more pitching talent than most teams' active roster.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know how the Rays are doing it. We really need to study their roster management and innings distribution. How their bullpen can absorb even more innings than ours without burning out is a mystery.  If we aren't going to spend dollars or trade capital on an Ace we need to figure this out. 

Here’s what I see with the Rays.  They’ve used 5 guys as traditional starters: McLanahan (7/7), Rasmussen (7/7). Eflin (5/5), Springs (3/3) and Bradley (3/3).  Eflin missed some games at the start, Springs is hurt now, and Bradley has been yo-yoed up and down from the minors.   But anyway, that’s 25 of the 35 starts, and those guys have averaged 5.48 IP/start, a pretty solid total.  

Then you have two rubber-armed guys, Fleming and Chirinos, who occasionally start but often come in behind an opener in a planned manner.  Fleming has made 7 appearances, each one at least 3 innings, including “relief” appearances of 6.0 and 5.0 innings and a 3 inning start that perhaps was cut short by poor performance.  Chirinos  has made 5 appearances, all at least 2.2 innings, including one “relief” appearance of 4.2 innings starting in the 2nd inning and one start of 5.1 innings.  

Otherwise, they have a few guys who go 2+ pretty regularly.  Faucher has done so 5 times (3 of which nominally were “starts”), Kelly 6 times, Beeks 3 times (2 “starts”).

Finally, Tampa has been making copious use of the AAA shuttle.  They’ve already used 22 pitchers (not including Luke Raley, who pitched an inning).   By contrast, the O’s have used 16.   

 

[AnythingO's]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know how the Rays are doing it. We really need to study their roster management and innings distribution. How their bullpen can absorb even more innings than ours without burning out is a mystery.  If we aren't going to spend dollars or trade capital on an Ace we need to figure this out. 

Agree with this and everything Frobby said in his response. I think WC said we have too many 1-inning, back end guys. I don't think Givens is going to fix that. We are limited to 8, Bautista, Baker, Cano, Perez, Coulombe, Givens is probably 1 too many. The "long" guys are Akin, Voth, Baumann and other than Voth they probably would be challenged to go more than 2 inn. We need the Norfolk shuttle to be the bridge but I don't feel all that comfortable with Zimmerman or Rom filling that role. Is Watkins still around? Even if yes, same lack of trust. Hall is an enigma but could maybe be another 1-inning guy. The mix isn't right and Hyde burns thru relievers too often. Perez and Voth don't have options so they won't ride the shuttle. Maybe Irvin is finding is control/command after his last start. Does Coulombe have options to go down for Givens? It seems like we have "enough" options but our option limitations will hamper best usage. To my mind, FWIW, Hyde needs to get the long men regular 2-3 inning work to keep Aki, Voth, Baumann, Zimmerman, and maybe Irvin or Watkins sharp. That would relieve the load on the 1 inning guys

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Agree with this and everything Frobby said in his response. I think WC said we have too many 1-inning, back end guys. I don't think Givens is going to fix that. We are limited to 8, Bautista, Baker, Cano, Perez, Coulombe, Givens is probably 1 too many. The "long" guys are Akin, Voth, Baumann and other than Voth they probably would be challenged to go more than 2 inn. We need the Norfolk shuttle to be the bridge but I don't feel all that comfortable with Zimmerman or Rom filling that role. Is Watkins still around? Even if yes, same lack of trust. Hall is an enigma but could maybe be another 1-inning guy. The mix isn't right and Hyde burns thru relievers too often. Perez and Voth don't have options so they won't ride the shuttle. Maybe Irvin is finding is control/command after his last start. Does Coulombe have options to go down for Givens? It seems like we have "enough" options but our option limitations will hamper best usage. To my mind, FWIW, Hyde needs to get the long men regular 2-3 inning work to keep Aki, Voth, Baumann, Zimmerman, and maybe Irvin or Watkins sharp. That would relieve the load on the 1 inning guys

Akin is really a LOOGY now. 12 games, 8.2 innings. And isn't doing that well even with favorable matchups. I suppose if Givens replaces Akin and maintains at least 1 IP per appearance that would be an improvement! But would that give us enough lefty options? Hall for Akin might be the best option as a guy who can give some length as well as left handed. 

Then Givens for Baumann, with a rotation of Baumann and Baker every 10 days.

Wells would be perfect to have in the bullpen providing length and versatility but unfortunately he is needed in the rotation. 

 

[AnythingO's]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Akin is really a LOOGY now. 12 games, 8.2 innings. And isn't doing that well even with favorable matchups. I suppose if Givens replaces Akin and maintains at least 1 IP per appearance that would be an improvement! But would that give us enough lefty options? Hall for Akin might be the best option as a guy who can give some length as well as left handed. Then Givens for Baumann, with a rotation of Baumann and Baker every 10 days. Wells would be perfect to have in the bullpen providing length and versatility but unfortunately he is needed in the rotation. 

 

Agree with this, but IMO Akin needs regular work to be sharp like the first half of last year going 1-2 inn. I didn't want to broach Wells to BP because the board would explode and the point would be lost. I too think that's where he is best for the team but we would need Irvin to step up and take his place in the rotation. I didn't think of the Baumann - Baker shuttle, that might work. We still need a long man other that Voth, Wells - Irvin switch could be the key.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Agree with this, but IMO Akin needs regular work to be sharp like the first half of last year going 1-2 inn. I didn't want to broach Wells to BP because the board would explode and the point would be lost. I too think that's where he is best for the team but we would need Irvin to step up and take his place in the rotation. I didn't think of the Baumann - Baker shuttle, that might work. We still need a long man other that Voth, Wells - Irvin switch could be the key.

I am a big Akin fan, but he’s simply not pitched well.  He hasn’t thrown a clean full inning this year.  That’s why he’s not naving longer outings.  

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I am a big Akin fan, but he’s simply not pitched well.  He hasn’t thrown a clean full inning this year.  That’s why he’s not naving longer outings.  

Just curious.   Why are you a big Akins fan?   

[AnythingO's]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I am a big Akin fan, but he’s simply not pitched well.  He hasn’t thrown a clean full inning this year.  That’s why he’s not naving longer outings.  

Oh, I absolutely agree but the way he was used the first half of last year I think is the key. IMO he needs semi regular 1-2 inning stints to stay sharp. Hyde likes to use his 1-inning guys. I would rather use a long guy for 3-4 innings to backup a 5 inning start.

[Big Mac]

23 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Shouldn't this be in the Captain Obvious thread?  You only need to be good to make the playoffs and please don't tell me the Phillies were a great team last year.

We are going to ride the current staff and see where it leads us.  Dylan Cease wasn't Dylan Cease overnight.   Corbin Burnes wasn't Corbin Burns until he had 2-3 years in MLB.  For now, I'll take good.

Add Voth to trusted relievers.  The bullpen gets deeper without making a move.  Givens replaces Akins.  Irvin still a factor at Norfolk.  

How many people, including the thread starter, thought we were "good" before the season started?

This is a good post.  To call out a minor pet peeve here, it's "Akin" not "Akins".  I've been seeing this all the time on here and blows my mind we can all know a player's average exit velocity, sprint speed, spin rate, extension, etc. yet miss the spelling of their name. 

Mini-rant over, I agree with the premise that it's early, the starters are relatively inexperienced and should get better.  And even if they don't, we're still good enough to win a lot of games. 

[rm5678]

5 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

This is a good post.  To call out a minor pet peeve here, it's "Akin" not "Akins".  I've been seeing this all the time on here and blows my mind we can all know a player's average exit velocity, sprint speed, spin rate, extension, etc. yet miss the spelling of their name. 

 

Jim Palmer has called him Akins on a couple of occasions too.

[Big Mac]

6 minutes ago, rm5678 said:

Jim Palmer has called him Akins on a couple of occasions too.

If only they put the names on the back of the jerseys to clear this up .