Can We Talk About Next Year Now?

[btdart20]

Is it 3/28/2024 yet?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

They are trying to win.  Hall needs a healthy season.  He can be a tremendous value out of the pen where there is a need.  You can always try to start him the year after if necessary.  Hall reminds me of Arthur Rhodes who also was a guy that coming through the minors the thought was to try to start him.

So he pitches 70 innings out of the pen and for 2025 we hear, He's never thrown 100 innings, he can't be relied on to start!

I'm not saying his eventual home isn't in the pan, but I think it's premature to close the door on starting.

[Bahama O's Fan]

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/baltimore-orioles/

Here are our free agents. Do we bring any of them back?

[SilentJames]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

If they hadn't have had Frazier, they might not have won the East. They even could have missed the playoffs.  Yes, I know by WAR you can't say the latter, but it's folly to pretend that you know the psychological effect of certain players being present vs others especially a guy like Frazier who had a lot of clutch hits especially early in the season that helped build the confidence of this team.  

It's funny that earlier you said you would sell the team if you owned it because you are just an average joe, but when it comes time to decide whether the Orioles should have signed Frazier you consider yourself an expert vs Elias.  I imagine you actually would be better equipped given your life experience to pick a GM vs. players.  

Frazier did exactly what he was supposed to do, be a competent enough ballplayer until guys like Westberg, Ortiz, et al proved they were ready for the big time. There is no doubt in my mind that Westberg will exceed Frazier's overall performance throughout the season. Frazier was this year's Odor, a guy who weirdly had a knack for coming through in a clutch situations and overall being a likeable guy. 

 

I think our biggest question is: "How real was O'Hearn?" Ryan's OPS was nearly 200 points lower in August-October than it was May-July. Regression to the mean? Are he and Mounty just forever platooning first base? Or is O'Hearn turning into a pumpkin and maybe we should think about moving him this offseason if the deal is right? 

[SilentJames]

1 minute ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/baltimore-orioles/

Here are our free agents. Do we bring any of them back?

Would bring back: 

Fuji and Lopez 

Would consider bringing back: 

Gibson 

The rest can go. 

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

I would trade Santander and Hays.  I would dump Felix Pie at SS dont need him messing up our lineup for another year.  I would dump Urias also and bring up Mayo and Holiday.  Westburg can be super utliity.  

 

8 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

I would trade Santander and Hays.  I would dump Felix Pie at SS dont need him messing up our lineup for another year.  I would dump Urias also and bring up Mayo and Holiday.  Westburg can be super utliity.  

Is that it? Or would there be other moves? How much better are we going to get replacing Hays and Santander with Mayo and Holliday? The later two are INF while the former are OF so I don’t see how this swap happens logistically.

[spleen1015]

3 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/baltimore-orioles/

Here are our free agents. Do we bring any of them back?

Not a single one.

[baltfan]

3 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/baltimore-orioles/

Here are our free agents. Do we bring any of them back?

Funny enough I think Hicks is the most likely to come back.  He is cheap as hell, selective, and apparently, they like him in the clubhouse.  

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, SilentJames said:

Frazier did exactly what he was supposed to do, be a competent enough ballplayer until guys like Westberg, Ortiz, et al proved they were ready for the big time. There is no doubt in my mind that Westberg will exceed Frazier's overall performance throughout the season. Frazier was this year's Odor, a guy who weirdly had a knack for coming through in a clutch situations and overall being a likeable guy. 

 

I think our biggest question is: "How real was O'Hearn?" Ryan's OPS was nearly 200 points lower in August-October than it was May-July. Regression to the mean? Are he and Mounty just forever platooning first base? Or is O'Hearn turning into a pumpkin and maybe we should think about moving him this offseason if the deal is right? 

IMO we should certainly be looking to upgrade over O’Hearn. 2023 was the best that he will most likely ever be. And still in time of the season, he gave us next to nothing. 

[now]

7 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Gunnar is our Carter or Carroll. And let's not forget Carter has barely played a month.  Guys get hot for a month all of the time.

My point was, it took a major commitment of poor results to get Gunnar rolling. Each prospect's trajectory is unknown, but it takes that commitment to find out. Or if you're sure it's just a matter of time, as with Gunnar, then it takes that patience. With Cowser, it's going to take more patience. And so on down the line. 

[NCRaven]

I wouldn't "close the door" on Hall being a starter.  He's got wicked stuff.  But, I also am intrigued by his potential as a shutdown closer.  

I'd like to snag Snell or Montgomery in free agency as both are significant upgrades over the Lyles and Gibsons of the world.  I'd also try to trade with the Marlins for Max Meyer.  Having him and Seth Johnson as TJ reclamation projects would be interesting.

And, I'd rather trade some of the veteran's approaching free agency for lower level prospects than trade away our own whenever possible.  If we can get a Bradish for Bundy, we should be able to identify other prospects with tools that we can improve in trades for Santander, Mullins, Hays, and/or Urias.  

[24fps]

44 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/baltimore-orioles/

Here are our free agents. Do we bring any of them back?

The only one that moves the needle even a little for me is Fujinami and only if Holt and his crowd think he can be fixed.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

First let me say, that I disagree with that opinion about Angelos. I do not believe that Elias wanted come out of last offseason with only Gibson, Irvin, O'Hearn and Frazier. Nor do i think he wanted to come out of the deadline with only Fujunama and Flaherty. They are cost prohibitive moves, not actual needle moving in any way.

As to your statement about "succeeding" I guess that depends on your definition of success. IMO great depth from a super deep farm can help you succeed over the long haul of the regular season. But when you are up against the best in the short series of October, depth matters much less. Front end talent matters more then. IMO if the goal is to "succeed" in the postseason (as it should be at this point), we are going to have to find more needle movers beyond in-house talent IMO.

The approach that we have taken has a ceiling. Other teams like TEX for example have good young talent, but also supplement it with necessary additions from outside of the org. Same goes for HOU/LAD/ATL. Those are the big boys that we are going to have to defeat if we want to win it all.

I don’t disagree that the approach we’ve taken has a ceiling.  We don’t have the resources of the Dodgers, Rangers, Braves, or Astros, so we’re going to be more selective in pursuing top level veterans.  But we can obviously do a lot more than we’ve done to date.

[oriolediehard]

I prefer spending money on free agents instead of trading a boat load of prospects to get 1 player, that is what other GM's are going to want, they overvalue their players. I don't want a Glen Davis type trade. 

[mcneck]

7 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

A couple of questions for you...

1) With a payroll this low and a team this good, why would we be looking to trade away good players to save money? Do you not feel that the cheap approach that we took in the offseason and deadline cost us in this series? Look at what the Rangers added (offseason and deadline) and look at what we did, did that not make any difference to you?

2) What makes you put Westburg in the category with Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson? What about Jordan Westburg's half of a season in the Majors says to you that he is a foundational piece? Were you overly impressed with the numbers he put up?

3) Why do you say "we are poor"? Angelos is RICH. Like BILLIONAIRE rich. He has money not as much as some of the richest owners but do you need that in order to make effective moves of adding to the team. He can most certainly afford to take the payroll up 35- 50 million which is about what it's going to take.

1. Angelos

2. Because it was his rookie year and a ton of guys need more than a half year as a part time players to get their feet under them. He was our minor league POY in this system. That says a lot about his potential.

3. Of course he can afford it but he won't do it. He never does. Last offseason was also an ideal time to add a piece or 2 but here we are. I'll believe it when I see it with him. Our best chance at success under him sadly is to go the way of the Ray's and stack talent and cycle it through every few years.