Brandon Hyde deal- mostly unknown

[JimGinSP]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

I could argue that it’s good if the manager’s contract length isn’t public.  It prevents the kind of speculation you get when everyone knows the manager is in the last year of his deal.  

It’s been an interesting offseason with two teams hiring other teams’ managers while they hadn’t been fired by the prior team.  I’m not concerned about Hyde getting poached at this stage, however.  
 

On the other hand we certainly should also have no concern of Hyde being dismissed with a year (or more) left on his contract for a more experienced manager seeking a record breaking contract!

2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Counsell has made some public statements about wanting to move the bar in general for future manager salaries, along with the thousand other reasons he may have wanted to change positions.   As a prior MLBPA rep as a player, he was apparently pretty active in that regard. 

It was kind of interesting that Counsell got his contract from the Cubs but the next two MLB manager hires (Guardians and Mets) went to two novices.  The pay differences between Franconia and Showalter vs. Vogt and Mendoza are probably substantial.   Counsell moved the top bar higher but the average annual mgr salary bar probably stayed status quo.  Even Ron Washington’s hire, while he has experience and is a baseball lifer, he’s been out of the skippers chair for nine years, I don’t think he had the upper hand at the negotiating table.

Edited November 8, 2023 by JimGinSP

[OriolesMagic83]

I seriously doubt Angelo's is paying top tier salaries for General Manager or Manager.  If I had to guess, probably around average for Elias and maybe below average for Hyde.  Angelo's isn't trying to raise the bar for anything but profit margins.

[tntoriole]

25 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I seriously doubt Angelo's is paying top tier salaries for General Manager or Manager.  If I had to guess, probably around average for Elias and maybe below average for Hyde.  Angelo's isn't trying to raise the bar for anything but profit margins.

Yeah, that is what led to Marvin Miller lol

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I seriously doubt Angelo's is paying top tier salaries for General Manager or Manager.  If I had to guess, probably around average for Elias and maybe below average for Hyde.  Angelo's isn't trying to raise the bar for anything but profit margins.

No reason to be paying Hyde a top salary up to now.   That situation is changing as he has more success.  He probably would get another gig pretty quickly if he left.   I’m not worried about it in the short run, especially since we know nothing about his salary or his contract.  

[tntoriole]

Pretty clear that ML managers are grossly underpaid 

 

“There are six managers this year earning less than $1 million and 15 managers earning $1.75 million or less. 

If those same managers went to college baseball, they’d get a pay raise, with 10 collegiate managers earning $1.2 million or more , according to USA TODAY Sports’ research, with Vanderbilt coach Tim Corbin topping the list at $2.47 million. “

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/10/08/major-league-baseball-managers-grossly-underpaid/71106218007/

[Sports Guy]

8 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Pretty clear that ML managers are grossly underpaid 

 

“There are six managers this year earning less than $1 million and 15 managers earning $1.75 million or less. 

If those same managers went to college baseball, they’d get a pay raise, with 10 collegiate managers earning $1.2 million or more , according to USA TODAY Sports’ research, with Vanderbilt coach Tim Corbin topping the list at $2.47 million. “

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/10/08/major-league-baseball-managers-grossly-underpaid/71106218007/

How much of this is effected by guys getting jobs with little to no experience?

[Can_of_corn]

8 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Pretty clear that ML managers are grossly underpaid 

 

“There are six managers this year earning less than $1 million and 15 managers earning $1.75 million or less. 

If those same managers went to college baseball, they’d get a pay raise, with 10 collegiate managers earning $1.2 million or more , according to USA TODAY Sports’ research, with Vanderbilt coach Tim Corbin topping the list at $2.47 million. “

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/10/08/major-league-baseball-managers-grossly-underpaid/71106218007/

I'd say being a collegiate manager involves a whole slew of skills these folks probably don't have.

Can Hyde recruit?

I think it's kind of insulting to imply that being a college manager is somehow a step down.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd say being a collegiate manager involves a whole slew of skills these folks probably don't have.

Can Hyde recruit?

I think it's kind of insulting to imply that being a college manager is somehow a step down.

Was that implied?  I’m not so sure, but then, I’m not always trying to look for the negative.   

I’d certainly say being a major league manager is the more demanding job, given the long season, lengthy road trips etc.   I may be ignorant, but I don’t think baseball recruiting is quite as bad as football or basketball.   I’d be interested in the perspectives of those who follow college baseball closely.  
 

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Was that implied?  I’m not so sure, but then, I’m not always trying to look for the negative.   

I’d certainly say being a major league manager is the more demanding job, given the long season, lengthy road trips etc.   I may be ignorant, but I don’t think baseball recruiting is quite as bad as football or basketball.   I’d be interested in the perspectives of those who follow college baseball closely.  
 

Nice shot!

I think it's implied that managing in college is the lesser position.  Hence it being noteworthy that you could get a pay raise by accepting it.  If they were equivalent positions it would be expected that some college managers would make more than some MLB managers.

 

I think the main issue with college recruiting for baseball is the limited number of scholarships you have to offer.

Quote

NCAA D1 baseball programs are allowed to offer a maximum of 11.7 athletic scholarships, which can be divided up among a maximum of 27 players. A D1 player on scholarship must receive a minimum scholarship of 25% of the total cost of attendance. A full scholarship includes tuition, fees, books, room, and board.

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[tntoriole]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

How much of this is effected by guys getting jobs with little to no experience?

Certainly that affects the salary structure, but even with that it seems the averages have gone down significantly in last 10 years.  
It was written before the huge Cubs/Braves deals so that obviously increases the average 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Certainly that affects the salary structure, but even with that it seems the averages have gone down significantly in last 10 years.  
It was written before the huge Cubs/Braves deals so that obviously increases the average 

Well, what GMs having more input and analytics doing more, the job of the manager is less.

[tntoriole]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, what GMs having more input and analytics doing more, the job of the manager is less.

Being more up to date and conversant with analytics, dealing with millionaire players and media, coordinating more intensively involved coaches and their feedback in real time games, being more open to a team managing environment 

Billy Martin had none of those particular problems or skill sets lol .. so I would say the current manager role is different not less, which is a value judgement. 

 

[Frobby]

I saw today that Texas A&M fired Jimbo Fisher and they owe him $76 mm.   That is obscene.   

[Number5]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I saw today that Texas A&M fired Jimbo Fisher and they owe him $76 mm.   That is obscene.   

Wow.  They can fire me for half that!

[Otter]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:31 AM, Frobby said:

Was that implied?  I’m not so sure, but then, I’m not always trying to look for the negative.   

I’d certainly say being a major league manager is the more demanding job, given the long season, lengthy road trips etc.   I may be ignorant, but I don’t think baseball recruiting is quite as bad as football or basketball.   I’d be interested in the perspectives of those who follow college baseball closely.  
 

I would argue that baseball recruiting is harder than football and baseball.  They only have partial scholarships to hand out in most cases, which makes it difficult to figure out how to allocate their limited budget between returning players and recruits.  They also have to worry about high school recruits they've spent a ton of time on skipping college and going straight to pro ball, as well as their own juniors and draft-eligible sophomores getting drafted and potentially leaving.  In addition, they have much less resources than the basketball and football programs at their schools.