Cease vs everyone else

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I guess but I hesitate to call one of three an outlier. 

It's only three seasons.

Kind of my point but Sakata is dug in on the point and nothing is going to change his mind.

[Number5]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He is a clear and obvious strong target for the Os and one I believe they will go after, as they reportedly did at the deadline.

The sticking point for Baltimore isn't this back and forth debate about whether Cease is a good pitcher or "that good" of a pitcher.  The issue is whether or not CWS have become more reasonable in their ask.  Yes, the Orioles spoke with them regarding Cease at the deadline, but there was, in reality, no deal to be made.  CWS was simply asking way too much.  If they are asking what Bowden suggests, there is simply no deal to be made.  Unless CWS comes down to earth in this regard, there is no point in talking about it ad infinitum, IMO.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Maybe they should, maybe they shouldn't.  I can see it both ways, easily.

 

So, a team that is 3-5 years away from being a legit good team, you believe they should sign a pitcher with his issues to a long term, 9 figure deal?  Really?  You think that should be on the table?

If they don’t move Cease and aren’t moving Robert, how do they start the rebuild?

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes we do. He’s 100% getting shopped.

Quote

≻ The Chicago White Sox aren’t shopping Dylan Cease, but are telling teams they will listen to offers. He could be the best pitcher available on the trade market. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/11/05/shohei-ohtani-free-agency-bidding-war-begins-gm-meetings/71461163007/

Seems like a coy high school girl at the prom with a flask if you ask me, but what do I know?

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Or the argument about the White Sox defense either. They ranked 14th overall last season which, for context, was just one spot ahead of the Orioles. 

I don’t know what defensive metric you are citing, but by the advanced metrics, rhe White Sox have been just terrible for at least three straight years:

Rtot: -48(28th), -67(30th), -65(27th)

Rdrs: -40 (28th), -35(26th), -59(29th)

FG Def: -20.1 (22nd), -35.1(28th), -38.5(30th)

And you can see it whenever we play them.  It’s obvious.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Number5 said:

The sticking point for Baltimore isn't this back and forth debate about whether Cease is a good pitcher or "that good" of a pitcher.  The issue is whether or not CWS have become more reasonable in their ask.  Yes, the Orioles spoke with them regarding Cease at the deadline, but there was, in reality, no deal to be made.  CWS was simply asking way too much.  If they are asking what Bowden suggests, there is simply no deal to be made.  Unless CWS comes down to earth in this regard, there is no point in talking about it ad infinitum, IMO.

Well, whether we discuss things here or not means nothing to real life. We are just shooting the sh!* and talking. 

But I do agree with you here. The reality is at the deadline, teams tend to pay more for pitching and the WS were seeing how desperate the Os (and probably other teams) were.  Teams always ask for the moon, we know that. What teams ask for and what the trade ends up being are 2 different things. Most of that is noise and simply worth ignoring.

There is no way that the WS would go into 2024 with Cease on their team if they can get Cowser and Ortiz for him, or some iteration of that.

I think they could be interested in Mateo too and I would be looking to expand the deal to include Kopech.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/11/05/shohei-ohtani-free-agency-bidding-war-begins-gm-meetings/71461163007/

Seems like a coy high school girl at the prom with a flask if you ask me, but what do I know?

I won’t call you but I’m asking you to please call me.

He’s being shopped.  Doesn’t mean he will be traded. He was shopped in July, he will be shopped now.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/11/05/shohei-ohtani-free-agency-bidding-war-begins-gm-meetings/71461163007/

Seems like a coy high school girl at the prom with a flask if you ask me, but what do I know?

https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/white-sox-free-agency/white-sox-make-everyone-available-via-trade-except-for-one-player-mlb-insider-says/518348/

Quote

“(The White Sox) are making everyone available in trades except center fielder Luis Robert – including ace Dylan Cease – as they lower their payroll,” he said.

That sounds like he's on the market.

 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t know what defensive metric you are citing, but by the advanced metrics, rhe White Sox have been just terrible for at least three straight years:

Rtot: -48(28th), -67(30th), -65(27th)

Rdrs: -40 (28th), -35(26th), -59(29th)

FG Def: -20.1 (22nd), -35.1(28th), -38.5(30th)

And you can see it whenever we play them.  It’s obvious.

He’s probably looking at something worthless like fielding%.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Number5 said:

The sticking point for Baltimore isn't this back and forth debate about whether Cease is a good pitcher or "that good" of a pitcher.  The issue is whether or not CWS have become more reasonable in their ask.  Yes, the Orioles spoke with them regarding Cease at the deadline, but there was, in reality, no deal to be made.  CWS was simply asking way too much.  If they are asking what Bowden suggests, there is simply no deal to be made.  Unless CWS comes down to earth in this regard, there is no point in talking about it ad infinitum, IMO.

The White Sox can take the risk and hold onto him until the deadline but after that Cease’s value starts depreciating.  They can ask for the moon but the WS GM knows that Cease is one of his best trade assets.   He’ll have to take the best deal he can get at some point between now and the deadline.    New GM.  Probably wants to revamp and rebuild ASAP.   I’m sure the Orioles are not the only team interested.  I’ve seen the Dodgers mentioned and, like the Orioles, have the prospect capital to make a deal.

Cease is still a WS.  The previous GM asked for too much.  He gone.  

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So, a team that is 3-5 years away from being a legit good team, you believe they should sign a pitcher with his issues to a long term, 9 figure deal?  Really?  You think that should be on the table?

If they don’t move Cease and aren’t moving Robert, how do they start the rebuild?

First of all, I really don't care what the White Sox do or don't do.  They could sign him, they could trade him.  It's no sweat off my sack if they sign him to a long term, 9 figure deal.  I can see 27 year old guy with, as you've pointed out, a lot of upside being a guy that they want to build a rotation around.  Do I 100% agree with that idea?  Not really but I also don't think it's out of the question.

So hell if I know how they start the rebuild if they don't move Cease and aren't moving Robert.  Not my problem.  Maybe they have some other ideas.

 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I won’t call you but I’m asking you to please call me.

 

No, I'm not calling you.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I won’t call you but I’m asking you to please call me.

He’s being shopped.  Doesn’t mean he will be traded. He was shopped in July, he will be shopped now.

Ok Carly Rae.

[Orange]

On the LockedOn Orioles podcast they had a White Sox writer on and worked out a possible Cease deal. The first part was that the White Sox would want a major league arm back, so Dean Kremer was suggested. Then a Tim Anderson replacement in Joey Ortiz. Then, they decided that one more major prospect would be required because Cease has two full years of team control. The Sox need LH power so Kjerstad was thrown in. The Chicago writer said that most White Sox fans would probably not think that is enough but that he liked it.

What do you think? Kremer/Ortiz/Kjerstad for Cease? Yay or nay?

[dystopia]

Chicago‘s asking price will be what determines just how available he is. Everyone is available at the right price. Saying he’s being shopped doesn’t tell us much.