Elias' mental shift

[Frobby]

I don’t feel like digging it up, but Elias definitely has said, long before this offseason, that one of the reasons to have a strong farm system is to have chips to trade for major league talent when you need it.  That concept did not dawn on him recently.  

[ThisIsBirdland]

Just now, Frobby said:

I don’t feel like digging it up, but Elias definitely has said, long before this offseason, that one of the reasons to have a strong farm system is to have chips to trade for major league talent when you need it.  That concept did not dawn on him recently.  

So you're saying he had the mental shift before the process even began? 

[Sports Guy]

48 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I'm betting that Elias knew there was a possible ownership change in December.  

So what happens if the deal fell through?  Elias, after wasting all that time calls up Arnold and says, btw, I wasn’t negotiating in good faith and thought the team would be sold..so now that it’s not, I’m backing out of the deal?

That is what you think because if you think it was a deal predicated on the sale of the team, that would be the scenario.

And Arnold isn’t going to spend his time negotiating with someone who may or may not be able to make a trade.

[RZNJ]

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Yeah, so.   I have no idea what your point is.

And Elias tried to get Babbit last year but that did not happen.  A lot of things get talked about but never get the approval to happen.

Who is this Babbit you keep referencing?   I feel like I’m talking to Elmer Fudd’s brother.

The point is that we were trying to trade prospects for a TOR pitcher at the deadline long before Elias would have known about an ownership change.  You’ve been trying to connect Burnes to the ownership change in order to say you couldn’t have seen such a move as if it wouldn’t have happened if the Angelo’s family still owned the team.

Edited February 5 by RZNJ

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So what happens if the deal fell through?  Elias, after wasting all that time calls up Arnold and says, btw, I wasn’t negotiating in good faith and thought the team would be sold..so now that it’s not, I’m backing out of the deal?

That is what you think because if you think it was a deal predicated on the sale of the team, that would be the scenario.

And Arnold isn’t going to spend his time negotiating with someone who may or may not be able to make a trade.

That last point is the kill shot.  

Personally I think it’s ridiculous to believe  that there was any serious question that JA would approve this deal.  It’s been reported all winter that the O’s were trying to trade for a pitcher who would slot in our top 3.   Our payroll is still extremely low and the Orioles will make a huge profit in 2024 even with Burnes on board.   
 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Who is this Babbit you keep referencing?   I feel like I’m talking to Elmer Fudd’s brother.

The point is that we were trying to trade prospects for a TOR pitcher at the deadline long before Elias would have known about an ownership change.  You’ve been trying to connect Burnes to the ownership change in order to say you couldn’t have seen such a move as if it wouldn’t have happened if the Angelo’s family still owned the team.

Bassitt.

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That last point is the kill shot.  

Personally I think it’s ridiculous to believe  that there was any serious question that JA would approve this deal.  It’s been reported all winter that the O’s were trying to trade for a pitcher who would slot in our top 3.   Our payroll is still extremely low and the Orioles will make a huge profit in 2024 even with Burnes on board.   
 

Yea, it’s absurd. It calls for so many pie in the sky things that it fails all logic. I just can’t see how people think either so little of Elias or Arnold or both that they think this is how things were done.

[RZNJ]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Bassitt.

I knew that.  LOL

[MijiT88]

On 2/3/2024 at 7:27 AM, Sports Guy said:

As I said before, this is a trade a contending team makes 100 times out of 100. The purpose of playing is to win titles, not to keep guys because they have a lot of service time.

^^ This is key for the org and for how people think here. We used to think about service time and all that blah blah blah but when you build a good farm that can keep supplying talent then maximizing 1 players service time is not needed. Elias has built the farm and now its time to harvest the crop and sell the excess. Keep what you want and trim off the rest to buy the things you dont have right now. its simple economics really haha

[MijiT88]

We have to stop thinking how things were done in the past and think how it is going to be done now. This is the smart way to do it.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

So what happens if the deal fell through?  Elias, after wasting all that time calls up Arnold and says, btw, I wasn’t negotiating in good faith and thought the team would be sold..so now that it’s not, I’m backing out of the deal?

That is what you think because if you think it was a deal predicated on the sale of the team, that would be the scenario.

And Arnold isn’t going to spend his time negotiating with someone who may or may not be able to make a trade.

I don't think the deal with the White Sox ever got that far.  They could not agree on the players to  be traded.  The White Sox wanted players the O's would not trade from the reports I have read.

Edited February 5 by wildcard

[Rbiggs2525]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think the deal with the White Sox ever got that far.  They could not agree on the players to  be traded.  The White Sox wanted players the O's would not trade from the reports I have read.

I believe this all came down to Organizations. Elias said that the Brewers value players in a similar way. There are a small number of teams that think this way. I do not know much about Getz but he needs to strip that team down in my honest opinion. Seemed like they had 3 left fielders and 3 first baseman in the lineup on a nightly basis. 

[wildcard]

I think its easy in hindsight for fans to say that the Burnes deal in one the O's had to make.   However with John Angelos involved its not a no brainer that he would trade two players making 740K each for the next 3 years that were ready to contribute to the 2024 O's for one year on a pitcher making 15m.   Trading away 12 years of control for one year of control may not have be approved by Angelos.

It would not be hard to think that Angelos would turn that deal down to save money.

Edited February 5 by wildcard

[24fps]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think its ease in hindsight for fans to say that the Burnes deal in one the O's had to make.   However with John Angelos involved its not a no brainer that he would trade two players making 740K each for the next 3 years that were ready to contribute to the 2024 O's for one year on a pitching making 15m.   Trading away 12 years of control for one year of control may not have be approved by Angelos.

It would not be hard to think that Angelos would turn that deal to save money.

We know that Elias has been working on a Cease trade for most of the offseason, so JA was already on board for an additional $8-9 million before Burnes was acquired.  At this juncture is JA going to fire Executive of the Year Mike Elias over $6 million for a deal roundly considered a steal while new ownership has been announced with the paperwork already submitted to the Commissioner?  If JA wants his money back, trade Austin Hays for a bag of balls, stick Cowser in LF and one currently wasted 6-years-of control problem also solved. 

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, 24fps said:

We know that Elias has been working on a Cease trade for most of the offseason, so JA was already on board for an additional $8-9 million before Burnes was acquired.  At this juncture is JA going to fire Executive of the Year Mike Elias over $6 million for a deal roundly considered a steal while new ownership has been announced with the paperwork already submitted to the Commissioner?  If JA wants his money back, trade Austin Hays for a bag of balls, stick Cowser in LF and one currently wasted 6-years-of control problem also solved. 

JA would not have to fire anyone.  He could just say no deal.  

Bassitt signed for for 3/63m last off season.  The O's were reported in on the deal.  Bassitt made 33 S, 200 IP, 16-8, 3.60 ERA and a WHIP of 1.175.   He would have been a playoff pitcher for the O's.

But the O's didn't sign him after Elias worked hard of the pursuit.   Did JA not want to spend the money?