Means behind schedule and won't be ready by opening day

[Yossarian]

They are being cautious with Means and not putting too many miles on that arm.   Just think,  by his age 42/43 season, he will have the arm of a 25 year-old.

[ChosenOne21]

2 hours ago, Yossarian said:

They are being cautious with Means and not putting too many miles on that arm.   Just think,  by his age 42/43 season, he will have the arm of a 25 year-old.

I get that maybe that's the ethical thing to do, but you'd think teams would ride their impending free agents like rented mules more often.

[Just Regular]

John Means came up a bit on Eno Sarris and Nick Pollack's new podcast, and Eno related a conversation he'd had with Means about how his changeup was like Marco Estrada's.

The story went Means agreed with the comp, which Eno was hesitant to use for fear of offending a good pitcher by comparing his stuff to one who overall wasn't that great.    Estrada did gather down ballot Cy votes his career year, and B-Ref still gives him a 12-10 edge on Means in career production.

[Jim'sKid26]

So with the injury updates of Means and Bradish, are they now to be considered the O's pitching upgrade at the trade deadline? Seems to me that both will be stretched out at about that time to be expected to go 5-6 IP/start by then if everything goes as planned with their respective rehabs. Might be a real shot in the arm (pardon the pun) to the staff to have them back by the middle of the season. 

[Oriole1940]

This all reminds me of a long ago memory from the Giants of the NL.  Not because of injuries but due to having 2 aces and nothing thereafter.    Spahn and Sain and 2 days of rain.  Yes, Warren and Johnny.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

This all reminds me of a long ago memory from the Giants of the NL.  Not because of injuries but due to having 2 aces and nothing thereafter.    Spahn and Sain and 2 days of rain.  Yes, Warren and Johnny.

The 1948 Boston Braves were “Spahn and Sain and pray for rain”

 

The popular saying -- “Spahn and Sain and pray for rain” -- came from a poem written by Boston Post sports editor Gerald Hern that reflected the state of Boston’s starting pitching.

Spahn and Sain were dominant -- especially during the pennant stretch -- and the rest of the rotation was unheralded.

Edited February 18 by RZNJ

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

So with the injury updates of Means and Bradish, are they now to be considered the O's pitching upgrade at the trade deadline? Seems to me that both will be stretched out at about that time to be expected to go 5-6 IP/start by then if everything goes as planned with their respective rehabs. Might be a real shot in the arm (pardon the pun) to the staff to have them back by the middle of the season. 

Means is projected to ready to join the rotation in April.

Edited February 18 by wildcard

[Jim'sKid26]

12 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Means is projected to ready to join the rotation in April.

Ouch! A down vote for suggesting that the most optimistic return date for Means may not be entirely realistic. You are a tough grader! For the record, I hope you are right but the recent setbacks that Means has endured speak to the reasoning for a more pessimistic point of view. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Ouch! A down vote for suggesting that the most optimistic return date for Means may not be entirely realistic. You are a tough grader! For the record, I hope you are right but the recent setbacks that Means has endured speak to the reasoning for a more pessimistic point of view. 

I gave you a courtesy up vote, so now you’re even!

On the substance, I’m in agreement with wildcard.  Means hasn’t had any offseason setbacks that we know of, the O’s just chose to put him on a slightly delayed ramp-up schedule to be cautious.   I’m expecting him on the team by end of April.  

[Jim'sKid26]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I gave you a courtesy up vote, so now you’re even!

On the substance, I’m in agreement with wildcard.  Means hasn’t had any offseason setbacks that we know of, the O’s just chose to put him on a slightly delayed ramp-up schedule to be cautious.   I’m expecting him on the team by end of April.  

First of all, Thank you. That was most kind. I appreciate the sentiment.

Secondly, I'm just not as optimistic as you and @wildcard. He's never been the most durable of SP's and the recent trend has not done anything to make me feel like he's either going to be ready in April or that he would be shut down again in May. As I said, I hope I'm wrong and both of you are right.

However, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of pitchers never fully recover from TJS. The data shows that when they do return they are much more prone to re-injury and other arm related injuries. Many of us focus on the guys who come back better after surgery but there are many who do not. The initial post surgery experience for Means is not reassuring to me.

Ref:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7905078/

https://asmi.org/position-statement-for-tommy-john-injuries-in-baseball-pitchers/

 

 

Edited February 18 by Jim'sKid26

[emmett16]

17 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Ouch! A down vote for suggesting that the most optimistic return date for Means may not be entirely realistic. You are a tough grader! For the record, I hope you are right but the recent setbacks that Means has endured speak to the reasoning for a more pessimistic point of view. 

Yea.  I’m very pessimistic about him.  He was shut down before playoffs and then had the entire off-season to rest and build up.  Something doesn’t jibe.  I’ll believe he’s an asset for the team after he’s made 5+ starts, until then I’ve basically counted him out as a meaningful contributor this year.  Of course it goes without saying that I hope I’m 110% incorrect.  Just have a bad feeling about him.    

[RZNJ]

Sure would be nice to know the actual diagnosis back in October.   Is “tight elbow” a medical term?   At no time was it reported that 3 months of rest was advised.   Seems kind of fishy which is why I’m not holding my breath on Means’ return.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Ouch! A down vote for suggesting that the most optimistic return date for Means may not be entirely realistic. You are a tough grader! For the record, I hope you are right but the recent setbacks that Means has endured speak to the reasoning for a more pessimistic point of view. 

I have never down voted anyone including you.

Edited February 18 by wildcard

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I have never down voted anyone include you.

Well, there’s a down vote there, and it says it’s from you.  You can undo it by clicking the up arrow, I believe.  

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, there’s a down vote there, and it says it’s from you.  You can undo it by clicking the up arrow, I believe.  

On my screen it shows not vote at all.   I don't even know how to vote.  Never use the function.