Why not market Mateo as a SS to a Contender like the LAD/CLEV for an arm for this season?

[rm5678]

7 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If it’s the Dodgers it could be names like Bobby Miller or Kyle Hurt. Two guys that are fringey SP options, but for them they can’t seem to crack the rotation and are bullpen options. Heck, they even have Walker Buehler in AAA. Buehler is a FA at the end of the season and makes $8 million this year.

Is Hurt and/or Miller even more valuable than McDermott?

 

 

Considering all of the O's pitching injuries this year, it might be a jinx to trade for someone named Hurt.

[Il BuonO]

8 hours ago, forphase1 said:

He has very little value,  except on the OH and in the warehouse.   While he's been better than expected this year so far,  he's shown his usual signs of starting to cool off, and as we know,  once he cools off he's usually bad most the rest of the year.   Maybe he bucks that trend this year,  but I highly doubt any team will trade much for the opportunity for him to prove that for them.  Simply he's not good enough/consistent enough with the bat for a team to trade us back a key piece.  Could we possibly get a lottery pick or something?  Sure.  Could we get anything to help the team win now?  I don't see it,  not in a trade with Mateo being the centerpiece. 

On what are you basing your statement? I don't necessarily disagree, but he could also be packaged with another prospect/MLB player.

4 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

He has more value than you're giving him credit for. He's a 1-2 win player with elite speed and (at times) elite defense at multiple premium positions. He's also making a pretty low salary relative to his performance with another couple years left (FA in 2026). 

A similar comp would be Jose Iglesias. He was traded by the O's for Jean Pinto and Garrett Stallings. Pinto was a "lottery ticket" and Stallings was a Top 20 prospect for the Angels. I think you can easily get a similar return.

That said, I do agree with your point that you most likely wouldn't get a player to help the team win now unless you swapped him with a team that had excess bullpen arms, but even then you're probably getting a middle reliever/setup man type, but noting premium. But hey...that might be useful.

Not a bad comp except for the speed which is a big part of Mateo's value. He can create havoc on the basepaths and arguably would have more stolen bases if he played more. Then again, his bat may be exposed if that happened.

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

On what are you basing your statement? I don't necessarily disagree, but he could also be packaged with another prospect/MLB player.

Because he's not that good.   If a similar player to Mateo was on another team,  what would we give up to get him?  Cash considerations?  A PTNL?  Certainly no one of real value.   Could Mateo be a 3rd or 4th piece in a trade?  Sure.  But if we try to make him the centerpiece or a top component to a trade, be prepared to be very underwhelmed at the return as the value just isn't there. 

[Il BuonO]

2 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Because he's not that good.   If a similar player to Mateo was on another team,  what would we give up to get him?  Cash considerations?  A PTNL?  Certainly no one of real value.   Could Mateo be a 3rd or 4th piece in a trade?  Sure.  But if we try to make him the centerpiece or a top component to a trade, be prepared to be very underwhelmed at the return as the value just isn't there. 

Did someone actually propose Mateo as a centerpiece in a trade? And as another poster said, you’re undervaluing him.

Heck, the Dodgers signed Chris Taylor, who has a similar skill set (except for speed) to multi year deal, but at the time no one thought it was an awful deal.

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

Did someone actually propose Mateo as a centerpiece in a trade? And as another poster said, you’re undervaluing him.

Heck, the Dodgers signed Chris Taylor, who has a similar skill set (except for speed) to multi year deal, but at the time no one thought it was an awful deal.

Sure, signed, for only $$$.  They didn't trade any talent to get him.  No doubt if Mateo was a free agent, some team would spend the money to put him on the team.  But that's a far cry different from taking someone currently helping their MLB team and trading that person for Mateo.  And yes, they were proposing Mateo as the centerpiece.  Heck, the whole premises of the OP was to market Mateo as a SS to a contender like LA or Cleveland for one of their arms.  There is no way he carries enough value to be able to do something like that.  Again, as 3rd or 4th piece of a large trade, sure.  As a #1 or #2 part on our side of a trade...that isn't going to get us anything that's going to really help us, unless the #1 part to Mateo being #2 is something like Mayo or Holiday.  We are going to have to give up talent to get talent, and that knocks Mateo out of the equation unfortunately.  

As to me undervaluing him, agree to disagree.  Some fall so in love with his speed and baserunning ability, they forget that he has to get on base first for it really to help.  Yes, he looked great for 6 weeks last year, then was pretty much the worst hitter in the league.  And yes, this year he has been more steady and consistent.  No, never at hot as last year, but nor has he gone ice cold yet.  But we are still dealing with a SSS, and I'll take the past few years results as being more in line with what Mateo will end up being versus what he's been so far this year.  Regardless of if he goes ice cold like last year OR continues to contribute as he has this year (nice triple tonight BTW) there just isn't much value there from a trade standpoint. 

[Il BuonO]

15 hours ago, forphase1 said:

And yes, they were proposing Mateo as the centerpiece.  Heck, the whole premises of the OP was to market Mateo as a SS to a contender like LA or Cleveland for one of their arms.  There is no way he carries enough value to be able to do something like that.  Again, as 3rd or 4th piece of a large trade, sure.  As a #1 or #2 part on our side of a trade...that isn't going to get us anything that's going to really help us, unless the #1 part to Mateo being #2 is something like Mayo or Holiday.  We are going to have to give up talent to get talent, and that knocks Mateo out of the equation unfortunately.  

As to me undervaluing him, agree to disagree.  Some fall so in love with his speed and baserunning ability, they forget that he has to get on base first for it really to help.  Yes, he looked great for 6 weeks last year, then was pretty much the worst hitter in the league.  And yes, this year he has been more steady and consistent.  No, never at hot as last year, but nor has he gone ice cold yet.  But we are still dealing with a SSS, and I'll take the past few years results as being more in line with what Mateo will end up being versus what he's been so far this year.  Regardless of if he goes ice cold like last year OR continues to contribute as he has this year (nice triple tonight BTW) there just isn't much value there from a trade standpoint. 

Lol, those who know me will attest to the fact that I'm the guy who walks outta the house without something I need. Same as not remembering the OP and the premise.  And we're in agreement there.

Mateo is a good piece is and I often think the same with regards to Mullins or Hays. These are not guys around whom to build your team but can be useful in trade packaged with a prospect who is either blocked positionally (Norby) or who they just don't see as productive ML players (Stowers).  And yes, y'all those are suppositions, so save the angry responses, they're just examples. Mullins and Hays are nice role guys and getting older. They can help a contender, but they're never going to headline a deal in the same way Mateo won't. 

Agree about Mateo getting on base to have a chance to wreak havoc, but I think especially with Mateo a contender will value his defense, including his versatility and positional value. Maybe a package for a TOR that includes one or more of these pieces packaged with Povich and Norby/Stowers, Basallo? gets the team that guy who DOES move the needle and steps in for the loss of Bradish. For now....another move to solidify the pen probably needs to be addressed.

[Malike]

The Dodgers gave up a 23-year-old RP with 302 Ks in 234 IP in the minors for Cavan Biggio and his 74 OPS+ and .595 OPS. 

[Il BuonO]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

The Dodgers gave up a 23-year-old RP with 302 Ks in 234 IP in the minors for Cavan Biggio and his 74 OPS+ and .595 OPS. 

Good point....have an embarrassment of riches in their system. It really is a testament to their scouting and development that they regularly have guys to "give away" when they want a supporting player to help their bench of all things. 

So, then, Mateo as the headliner is not as farfetched as it seems for the right team and Dodgers could be the right team for him as well.