Should Rubenstein relieve Mike Elias of his duties?

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, webbrick2010 said:

specifically has Elias done a good job of? Drafting?, Trading?, giving interviews?

 

We won 100+ games and the AL East last year and we are on track for a second straight playoffs after having gone through a painful rebuild. Plus developed a pipeline of talent that should extend our window. Basically, everything you hope from a GM except for a WS title.  

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, webbrick2010 said:

I am somewhat shocked by the support of Elias, so perhaps I can take another approach

Does/will  the draft the bats buy/trade for the pitchers approach work?

Is the O's roster in 2024 stronger than 2023?

Has Elias made effective/sufficient trades in the offseason or at the trade deadlines to move the O's closer to a WS

Does the Orioles system have a defense problem?

Has it been a mistake to not draft pitchers in the upper rounds?

Does a GM have any accountability for a system that all but the High A team are significantly below .500

Is the only path forward to a championship team for Rubenstein to open up his wallet and the O's to outbid others for the scarcity of pitching? Will that work?

and

What specifically has Elias done a good job of? Drafting?, Trading?, giving interviews?

 

You are surprised that people still support a GM of an organization that was once a laughing stock, but is now in it's second pennant run in two years despite a multitude of injuries? All because the team has played slightly below .500 baseball for two months?

You asked the question, you got the responses. Changing it to something completely different, something I've already have a thread on (drafting and development) is not going to change that you asked a question that is going to get little support, even by the most frustrated of fans.

 

[Baseball fandom]

I' say no but let's please stop acting like he's the greatest thing since whatever.  I think he was on a great run the first few years but the last couple has been troubling to me.  That's my response. 

.

Edited August 30 by Baseball fandom

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

I am somewhat shocked by the support of Elias, so perhaps I can take another approach

Does/will  the draft the bats buy/trade for the pitchers approach work?

Is the O's roster in 2024 stronger than 2023?

Has Elias made effective/sufficient trades in the offseason or at the trade deadlines to move the O's closer to a WS

Does the Orioles system have a defense problem?

Has it been a mistake to not draft pitchers in the upper rounds?

Does a GM have any accountability for a system that all but the High A team are significantly below .500

Is the only path forward to a championship team for Rubenstein to open up his wallet and the O's to outbid others for the scarcity of pitching? Will that work?

and

What specifically has Elias done a good job of? Drafting?, Trading?, giving interviews?

 

You are shocked at the support?  He took over the worst organization in the sport and maybe all of sports. He has brought us an international presence. He has totally revamped coaching. He has brought in technology and stuff like that, which wasn’t there before. 
 

He built an elite farm system, has done a good job making trades (despite your uneducated takes..you aren’t going to win every trade) and has turned us into a winner.

On the most basic level, he has done everything a GM needs to do.

Does he has some issues?  Yes. I pointed out the drafting stuff a few years ago and was ridiculed for it but now everyone is seeing the same thing I did. He has an issue with the pen.  But this is a team that was just voted to have 7 of the best players 25 or younger in baseball. 
 

The team is very injured…and it’s a very young team, which means there going to be growing pains.

[webbrick2010]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The simple answer is no.  

This team has been decimated by starting pitching injuries and the team is still in a battle to win the division despite the fact it has played so poorly since late June. 

Now, saying that, do I have questions about things on how Elias and his staff does things? Absolutely.

I've been a vocal opponent of his draft strategy of not drafting pitching very high which is why the system is barren of help right now. I'm also not convinced despite the technologies they use, that they develop players and pitchers all that well. I've certainly detailed my concerns with their drafting and development of pitching in multiple posts.

Think about this, Elias has spent a lot of draft capital drafting college hitters since 2019, yet this team still his Eloy Jimenez and Austin Slater getting PAs during a pennant drive?

We've seen multiple rookies come up and just out right stink. Not struggle a bit, but have historically bad starts to their major league careers and it makes me wonder if the hitting approach taught is something sustainable at the major league level. 

We've seen Elias bury players like Ortiz and Westburg (for half a season) last year, and Norby over the last few years, only to see them success once given an opportunity at the major league level. 

Norby, who always had a major league bat, is hitting well for the Marlins, but the worse part is they've converted him to 3B where he's done pretty well. The Orioles tried to shoehorn him to 2B where he was never a good fit and then gave him some outfield time, but barely ever gave him 3B reps. Why? Yes, I know Mayo is playing there, but Mayo continues to struggle with his throwing so why is he still at 3B when you have Westburg already playing 3B? 

None of it makes any sense. Urias has been a disaster at 3B this season defensively so would the team be worse right now with Norby at 3B and Urias at 2B and Holliday back in AAA trying to get better? 

But Norby was sent away with Stowers (who has struggled but I still think will find a major league role) for Trevor Rogers, who's stuff was shockingly bad before getting sent to AAA where he's struggled.

Now, that trade looks awful right now, but the bigger issue is not perhaps developing Norby correctly and making the wrong assessment on his bat. Norby has spent the last two and half years telling Elias that he was ready for major league pitching, so why was he playing positions he was blocked at and never going to be good at? 

Now, saying that, the Eflin trade as well as the Philliies trade are looking good (Go look at what Soto has done in his last 6 outings), but the reliance on AAA opt out and waiver claims for a contending team is a little concerning and tells us about the true depth of his upper levels. 

So yes, that's a lot of negatives, but the results are what matter. A lot has gone wrong this season with Bradish, Means, and Wells being lost for the season along with Coulombe, Webb, Westburg, Grayson and even Mateo being lost for good bits of the season. That's a lot of guys expected to contribute this season in major roles. 

I believe Elias has absolutely done an amazing job of turning this organization around. He absolutely has led this franchise from being a joke to being what looks like an annual contender. Are their warts that are starting to show a bit? Yes. Has he shown he can put a team on the field that can go deep into the playoffs? Not yet. 

We also don't know what he can do with an offseason of having an owner that should spend money. 

Am I saying that it's valid to be critical of some areas of the organization? I do.

Am I ready to say he should go? Absolutely not. 

 

 

Thanks Tony, I didn't think I was crazy or completely unwarranted in my concerns with Elias

I would also counter that perhaps it is not such a great GM talent to tank a ML team, collect several years of top 5 picks and then get to a playoff level.

I am singly focused on the O's building a championship roster and don't believe that Elias will ever get there. I believe the buy/trade for pitching approach has doomed the Orioles for the next several years at least

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Baseball fandom said:

I' say no but let's please stop acting like he's the greatest thing since whatever.  I think he was on a great run the first few years but the last couple has been troubling to me.  That's my response. 

The last few years where they won 100 games and will make the playoffs and possibly have the 1 seed again are troubling to you?

[DrinkinWithFermi]

He obviously isn't going to fire him because that would be objectively stupid, but I really hope Rubenstein extends Mike Elias this offseason. The longer, the better, because I like being good and don't want to go back to being bad (unlike webbrick, who clearly prefers the Orioles being bad so he can complain about them being bad on the internet).

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, webbrick2010 said:

Thanks Tony, I didn't think I was crazy or completely unwarranted in my concerns with Elias

I would also counter that perhaps it is not such a great GM talent to tank a ML team, collect several years of top 5 picks and then get to a playoff level.

I am singly focused on the O's building a championship roster and don't believe that Elias will ever get there. I believe the buy/trade for pitching approach has doomed the Orioles for the next several years at least

Saying Elias has issues is one thing. Saying he needs to be fired is a whole other level of absurdity.

Plenty of guys get top 5 picks and miss on them. That’s another poor take.

[Sports Guy]

Why didn’t you make this thread 2 months ago?

[Baseball fandom]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The last few years where they won 100 games and will make the playoffs and possibly have the 1 seed again are troubling to you

I edit.

Yes if you think he's great that's your opinion. I think he is good not great. I stand by that.  I will say this it will be interesting in seeing what he does with support of ownership with deeper pockets. I just hope for no more Norby for Rogers trade that any of us "at the end of bar" fan wouldn't had made let alone an established GM should of. 

Edited August 30 by Baseball fandom

[Too Tall]

Well, I guess we lost last night. Slept late. Some things are as predictble as bunnies at Easter.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Baseball fandom said:

Gee can you show me where they won 100 games multiple times I see 1 year or made the playoffs multiple years. I see one. Again if you think he's great that's your opinion in my opinion is he's good  not great and  I said I would keep him

Read again. I didn’t say won 100 games multiple times. I said 100 last year and will be in the playoffs this year. 
 

Hell, even in 2022 they came out of nowhere and were playing meaningful games in September.

 

[Sports Guy]

Elias is easily the most important thing that has happened to this org in at least 25 years. It’s not even debatable. 

[ThomasTomasz]

53 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Since there was a thread to eliminate the field manager, I thought there should be a thread to fire the general manager

In the past 12 months we have gone from a 101 win AL East champion backed up by a AAA champion Norfolk tides and #1 farm system to a team

With Slater, Eloy, Rivera, and Livian Soto on the active roster

Connor Norby (10 game hitting streak), and Kyle Stowers ( 6 RBI's this week), were traded for nothing (and there was near universal agreement that this was a dreadful trade)

The system is heavy on LH hitting prospects

The top prospects (Mayo, Kjerstad) have major defensive short comings

No starting pitching has been drafted in upper rounds, there are zero pitching prospects in the pipeline. Cade Povich who does not have a single ML level pitch is in the rotation.

Jackson Holliday (see Norby trade) was rushed to the majors and is not ready

Team has played bad fundamental baseball for most of 2024 but Hyde remains in dugout

2025 looks bleak with the need for at least 3SP's, and several bullpen arms

I was willing to give the draft the bats, trade for the arms approach a chance but the ML wide shortage of pitching has made this approach and Elias a failure.

Time to move on.

 

 

I’m going to answer this with another question.  Would you rather: 

A.) Go back to the Stone Age where we luck into certain time frames of competition, where we have no reasonable competitive advantage over our competitors? 

B.) Be a team like the Rays where we have a great talent pipeline, and are usually in the playoff race/discussion every single year? 

As a long-suffering Redskins/Commanders fan…….I’ve been through it with both teams.  Even in 2014-15, I advocated that the Orioles should invest more in their analytics department, and they should begin investing in the Latin American market which is over 20% of active players now.  We haven’t even seen the fruits of those first signings reach the majors yet in Basallo.  

I’m sorry, but I’m taking the chance with the development pipeline being established and being a cutting edge analytics organization and being in the running every year as a competitor.  

[Baseball fandom]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Read again. I didn’t say won 100 games multiple times. I said 100 last year and will be in the playoffs this year. 
 

Hell, even in 2022 they came out of nowhere and were playing meaningful games in September.

 

I know I edit it. After reading again