Elias taking accountability

[EddeeEddee]

3 hours ago, deward said:

Adley's OPS bottomed out at .413 after game 15, and sat at .513 20 games in, so it was a little more than 10 games in May 2022. He hit his first HR on Jun 15, and took off after that. There wasn't a ton of angst about it at the time, because no one expected that team to become a contender. 

The frustration with Oriole prospects isn't that they don't set the world on fire right away, it's that they often seem to be so hapless at the plate as to be unplayable. It's not just that Cowser didn't hit well in 2023, he put up an OPS of .433 and looked lost and demoralized by the time he was sent back down. Holliday had a 10 game run where he hit his 5 HR's and OPS'd over 1.000; his OPS prior to that was .170, and in a month's worth of games since his last HR, his OPS is .437, and also looks lost up there. Mayo has an OPS of .272 in his first 42 PA. It's not just that some of these guys come up and struggle, they're black holes, which is particularly painful to watch for a team that's fighting for a playoff spot. It would be great if Mayo was putting up an OPS of .608, that would at least mean he's occasionally flashing his potential. 

There wasn't much angst about Adley also probably because just over 1 month into his career his OPS broke .700 after he hit his third home run.  And it doesn't hurt that he is a catcher, and I would assume everyone is more patient with a player who plays the most important defensive position on the field. 

It's crazy to think that Adley was somehow disappointing in his first season because he struggled his first month in the league.  It took Mike Trout nearly two months to break a .700 OPS in his rookie season.  And for the month of September/October that season he didn't even break a .500 OPS.  A-Rod didn't crack a .500 OPS his first year in the majors (less than 50 PAs), and in his second season he didn't crack .700.  These guys had tremendous talent, but they were promoted at such a young age and with such high expectations that we're all expecting too much too soon.

People think top prospects should crush the ball like Juan Soto did as soon as they hit the majors.  Sometimes that happens but it's got to be pretty rare, maybe even rarer today than in years past.

My own personal opinion about Holliday and Mayo is that they aren't quite ready.  They're on the Orioles really because of injuries to other players.  Holliday especially has way too much in the way of expectations on his shoulders.  These guys need some more time.  

 

[SilverRocket]

3 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

This makes sense to me.  I wonder what in particular the players are learning in the minors that requires some adjustment in the majors.   Our young hitters may rely too much on an accurate strike zone given the use of robo umps in AAA

I think this is real, and we saw this with Gunnar, Cowser, and the first Holliday callup. Though I don't think it explains Holliday's current stretch or Mayo, where that hasn't really been his problem.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think that’s when the hitting injuries reached critical mass — because we lost Mountcastle and O’Hearn, at least the strategically deployed O’Hearn that we’d all come to love. Adding that on top of already losing Westburg and the Adley tailspin, and that’s more than most offenses can take. Losing Urias a week or two later was just icing on top of an already spoiled cake.

And each of these can magnify the others. When one part of the lineup struggles, you are playing from behind, therefore seeing better pitchers. When the next guy coming up is an auto-out, the good batters can get pitched around. When there are bases open you don't get good pitches to hit, and when guys aren't getting on base it takes longer to get into the bullpen. It feels like all of these things are happening and creating a vicious cycle/tailspin effect... But if we could get one or two key bats back, we could reverse it. One Evan Carterish heater can change the whole dynamic. 

[Jagwar]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Does it really matter? Many here have been calling for Urias to be cut most of the year. Westburg’s injury sucks but instead of making real additions we were shopping in the trash can. Soto, Slater, Eloy, Rivera …. no wonder the offense sucks. The whiffs are off the charts. Anyone in the dugout who has any say in the hitting should be fired immediately and sewed for damaging our young players. Tons of regression here….i mean tons. And Gunnar , 24 errors WTF. 

What real position player additions were the O's going to make when Westburg went down 1 day after the trade deadline?

And I'm fairly certain there will be no sewing of coaches. No knitting either.  

[TopGunnar]

This mess isn’t Elias fault.  

[Since1984]

22 hours ago, Campmoon said:

Small sample size but I'm surprised Jasson Dominguez has struggled so far. Seems like Yankees rookies always start strong.

Look at Aaron Judge’s late season call up, similar to Gunnar’s call up time frame. Both won ROY

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Jagwar said:

What real position player additions were the O's going to make when Westburg went down 1 day after the trade deadline?

And I'm fairly certain there will be no sewing of coaches. No knitting either.  

Yes but he had acquired either through trade or claim bad baseball players. He had other options before the deadline. If you think losing Westburg was/is the only problem you haven’t been paying attention.

I was being facetious, but either way they should both be fired at seasons end. The approach is god awful.

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

You keep going back to full season stats. Go look at their stats during this collapse.

Yep …. The early season stuff is meaningless now. This team has been mediocre or worse for too long.

[Jagwar]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Yes but he had acquired either through trade or claim bad baseball players. He had other options before the deadline. If you think losing Westburg was/is the only problem you haven’t been paying attention.

I was being facetious, but either way they should both be fired at seasons end. The approach is god awful.

You seemed to connect Westburg to all of the schmoes Elias has acquired after Westy got dinged. If I was wrong about that let me know. 

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

You seemed to connect Westburg to all of the schmoes Elias has acquired after Westy got dinged. If I was wrong about that let me know. 

I never said Westburg’s injury was the Issue. We needed at least 1 OF bat. He got Eloy, Chisholm went to the Yankees for little and is a difference maker. You could see that earlier when he played us. 

[MDtransplant757]

I think injuries caught up to this team, and it strikes me a lot like the 2013 team did. Both teams had to come back down from earth from the year prior's wild success, and the injury bug wasn't as big a problem in 2023 as it has been this year. Urias and Westburg coming back help, but how much do they help is the real question? It's not impossible for the Orioles to win it all in October if they make it (2006 Cardinals and 2010 Giants did win it all under similar circumstances), but at this point how far can you go if you can't get any momentum going on offense? What has to give and what more can you do if you're Elias and everyone in the office? When does Trevor Rogers factor in after looking like a stud in Norfolk? 

[Jagwar]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I never said Westburg’s injury was the Issue. We needed at least 1 OF bat. He got Eloy, Chisholm went to the Yankees for little and is a difference maker. You could see that earlier when he played us. 

I think maybe you're using hindsight as the lens? Pitching was determined by Elias to be the primary need at the deadline. If had known that Westburg would be out for 2 months Trade Deadline +1 he first of all would never have traded Norby. And probably still wouldn't have done anything else because he had Urias healthy and Holliday to bring back up.

[Camden_yardbird]

2 hours ago, TopGunnar said:

This mess isn’t Elias fault.  

He's taking responsibility now, so he can dole out accountability later.

[Oriole40]

 You cannot fire the GM or players this year.  With all the SP injuries as well as injuries to others, it  is a year to run the clock out  on, and surely the Orioles will not be as snakebiten in 2025 as 2024.  Take any team and have them have same injuries and none would have come out smelling like a rose, though some would have survived better than others. I am looking to 2025 and trusting in the law of averages to come through for us.  As I say, let any other team lose a Means and Bradish, etc. and try to compete and see how they would do.  That is 40%, of the SP rotation. Go Orioles.

[Flightless]

I’m still not buying the injury argument. Look at the Astros, the Braves and yes, even the Yankees. They all recovered - difference being they had most of their problems early on and then recovered. The Orioles have known since June/earlyJuly about the pitching mess - especially the bullpen! Good move acquiring Eflin - I’ll give him that. Trevor Rogers…..what? what? The last place Marlins have to be laughing!

Again, I return to the instability in the starting line-up. Too many rookies at one time on the merry-go-round among veterans that seem to come out of nowhere - Rivera, Soto, Slater, Eloy whatever his name is…… what a freaking mess! This isn’t a major league team, it’s an amateur pickup game. 

I fear there’s not enough time to put Humpty Dumpty together again, but I hope I’m wrong. Maybe finally jettisoning Kimbrel will wake this team up and give them hope!