Elias taking accountability

[Baseball fandom]

6 hours ago, MDtransplant757 said:

I think injuries caught up to this team, and it strikes me a lot like the 2013 team did. Both teams had to come back down from earth from the year prior's wild success, and the injury bug wasn't as big a problem in 2023 as it has been this year. Urias and Westburg coming back help, but how much do they help is the real question? It's not impossible for the Orioles to win it all in October if they make it (2006 Cardinals and 2010 Giants did win it all under similar circumstances), but at this point how far can you go if you can't get any momentum going on offense? What has to give and what more can you do if you're Elias and everyone in the office? When does Trevor Rogers factor in after looking like a stud in Norfolk? 

Man this team has no shot. Right now they may not even make it. 

[EddeeEddee]

6 hours ago, MDtransplant757 said:

I think injuries caught up to this team, and it strikes me a lot like the 2013 team did. Both teams had to come back down from earth from the year prior's wild success, and the injury bug wasn't as big a problem in 2023 as it has been this year. Urias and Westburg coming back help, but how much do they help is the real question? It's not impossible for the Orioles to win it all in October if they make it (2006 Cardinals and 2010 Giants did win it all under similar circumstances), but at this point how far can you go if you can't get any momentum going on offense? What has to give and what more can you do if you're Elias and everyone in the office? When does Trevor Rogers factor in after looking like a stud in Norfolk? 

Great post.  I like your optimism, and I'll try to believe this team can turn things around just in the nick of time like some classic Hollywood baseball movie.

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, Jagwar said:

I think maybe you're using hindsight as the lens? Pitching was determined by Elias to be the primary need at the deadline. If had known that Westburg would be out for 2 months Trade Deadline +1 he first of all would never have traded Norby. And probably still wouldn't have done anything else because he had Urias healthy and Holliday to bring back up.

No …. He traded out Hays for Eloy. If you remember Hays and Mullins were both underperforming. And I don’t care when … This is a win now competitive team. There is no excuse for having a roster that has 4 AAAA baseball players on it. And he hung on to Kimbrel too long.

Edited 8 hours ago by Roll Tide

[Jagwar]

58 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

No …. He traded out Hays for Eloy. If you remember Hays and Mullins were both underperforming. And I don’t care when … This is a win now competitive team. There is no excuse for having a roster that has 4 AAAA baseball players on it. And he hung on to Kimbrel too long.

So... who should be on the team instead of those 4 AAAA players? And given the timing of each injury to Westburg, Urias, Kjerstad and Mountcastle... how and when was Elias supposed to acquire/add them to the roster?

[deward]

1 hour ago, EddeeEddee said:

It's crazy to think that Adley was somehow disappointing in his first season because he struggled his first month in the league.  It took Mike Trout nearly two months to break a .700 OPS in his rookie season.  And for the month of September/October that season he didn't even break a .500 OPS.  A-Rod didn't crack a .500 OPS his first year in the majors (less than 50 PAs), and in his second season he didn't crack .700.  These guys had tremendous talent, but they were promoted at such a young age and with such high expectations that we're all expecting too much too soon.

I'm not sure who's saying that Adley was disappointing in his first season; I didn't say that. I just said he struggled badly for 20 games. It's just one data point in a pattern. 

People think top prospects should crush the ball like Juan Soto did as soon as they hit the majors.  Sometimes that happens but it's got to be pretty rare, maybe even rarer today than in years past.

This also seems directed at someone else, it doesn't have anything to do with what I wrote.

My own personal opinion about Holliday and Mayo is that they aren't quite ready.  They're on the Orioles really because of injuries to other players.  Holliday especially has way too much in the way of expectations on his shoulders.  These guys need some more time.  

No argument on Holliday, the results clearly tell us he wasn't ready. Mayo I think is falling into the trap of needing consistent PT to get adjusted to the point where he's at least contributing something, and not getting it because the O's can't afford a black hole in the lineup right now. It becomes something of a vicious circle. 

[sportsfan8703]

Maybe last year we were really two years away and we really just overachieved because of team chemistry and Bautista.  I don't see how taking Santa out of this lineup can be a good thing.  What are we going to do with 1B/DH next year.  Mounty and O'Hearn really can't be counted on for a team trying to win.  

[foxfield]

18 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

And each of these can magnify the others. When one part of the lineup struggles, you are playing from behind, therefore seeing better pitchers. When the next guy coming up is an auto-out, the good batters can get pitched around. When there are bases open you don't get good pitches to hit, and when guys aren't getting on base it takes longer to get into the bullpen. It feels like all of these things are happening and creating a vicious cycle/tailspin effect... But if we could get one or two key bats back, we could reverse it. One Evan Carterish heater can change the whole dynamic. 

I don't really disagree, but where do you have to go to get these pitchers that throw the types of pitches described above?  

[MCO'sFan]

18 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Maybe last year we were really two years away and we really just overachieved because of team chemistry and Bautista.  I don't see how taking Santa out of this lineup can be a good thing.  What are we going to do with 1B/DH next year.  Mounty and O'Hearn really can't be counted on for a team trying to win.  

While agree that taking this year's Santander out of the offense would hurt. This is the only year that he has performed at this level. He's OPS is 37 points higher this year, than his avg. His OBP stinks and he goes cold for fairly long periods. He's had a couple of heaters that have padded his OPS. His career OPS+ is 114 and that is buoyed by this years 132. I am not saying he sucks or is even at a replacement level player. But he is a pretty flawed player who is not likely to repeat this year which has been pretty flawed as well. I like Santander and I think he provides valuable leadership. I just don't see him having the value that it will take to keep him. I also don't think he is the type of player that ages well. 

[webbrick2010]

13 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

While agree that taking this year's Santander out of the offense would hurt. This is the only year that he has performed at this level. He's OPS is 37 points higher this year, than his avg. His OBP stinks and he goes cold for fairly long periods. He's had a couple of heaters that have padded his OPS. His career OPS+ is 114 and that is buoyed by this years 132. I am not saying he sucks or is even at a replacement level player. But he is a pretty flawed player who is not likely to repeat this year which has been pretty flawed as well. I like Santander and I think he provides valuable leadership. I just don't see him having the value that it will take to keep him. I also don't think he is the type of player that ages well. 

I also don't think he is the type of player that ages well.

Curious about this opinion since he is having his career year at age 29 and his trend is up, OPS+ 94, 120, 121, 132 his past 4 seasons

I have said it in many posts, I think he has some Joey Bautista potential.

But he would need to be valued as a 1B/DH and not an outfielder.

[Aristotelian]

52 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Maybe last year we were really two years away and we really just overachieved because of team chemistry and Bautista.  I don't see how taking Santa out of this lineup can be a good thing.  What are we going to do with 1B/DH next year.  Mounty and O'Hearn really can't be counted on for a team trying to win.  

I think the plan was some combination of Mayo, Kjerstad, and Basallo. However, the way our rookies are faring, it looks like there might need to be a plan B. 

In addition to the 40 HR, Santander really helps for lineup construction. Adley will be our only SH. Eventually one of these LHB's will need to be able to hit LHP's, but Elias seems to have zero faith anyone not named Gunnar will do so. 

[MCO'sFan]

1 hour ago, webbrick2010 said:

I also don't think he is the type of player that ages well.

Curious about this opinion since he is having his career year at age 29 and his trend is up, OPS+ 94, 120, 121, 132 his past 4 seasons

I have said it in many posts, I think he has some Joey Bautista potential.

But he would need to be valued as a 1B/DH and not an outfielder.

He is in the middle of the period where most players improve. I thought it was obvious that I was taking about his long-term not his late 20's. I should have been more clear.

Edited 1 hour ago by MCO'sFan