Do you trust AM

[Scrat1]

I trust AM to do as good of a job as any other GM in baseball, possibly better. Does that mean he will lead us to the playoffs? I'm not sure. The division is, as everyone knows, an absolute doozy. I think he's going to put us in a great position to compete, and maybe we'll get there. But if we don't, that doesn't necessarily mean he did a bad job.

People are kidding themselves if they think the Orioles would suddenly be in the ALCS if Epstein or Beane was our GM.

[JTrea81]

That's what got the Yankees a first round exit from the playoffs in so many recent years. That's not what I want from my playoff team, thanks.

I'd just like the Orioles to get to the playoffs. Then I'll worry about how far they go once they get there.

[GoldGlove21]

Come on dude. First of all, look at SG's reply.

Second, you saw what Cliff Lee did in the Series. I'm assuming you did watch the Series. He simply shut them down. If thats not proof positive as to why good pitching is important, I don't know what to tell you.

The 1989 Orioles went from last to damn near first on the strength of pitching and defense. Fundamental baseball. To that point, Ripken had his worst season ever. Tettleton lead the team with an .877 OPS. Different era, sure...but even for that time the 89 Orioles hung with the teams that were considered the "heavy hitters" of the day.

Trea, you're essentially trying to take 100+ years of baseball strategy and thought and refute it. If you look in the annals of baseball history you'll find that there have been plenty of men in the sport who are smarter than you and know more than you who know what it takes to win. And it's pitching.

I know you'll probably ignore this post but I can't let it go without putting in one quote from someone who's pretty well respected around here:

What are you looking at Moose, teams do not need quality starting pitching as long as they can hit. Remember all of those World Series the loaded Ranger team won? How many was it again, I lost count....... 0!!! :laughlol:

Watching a good offense is a fun thing to do, but I will say this. With all of that offense the Yankees have, why did CC Sabathia need to pitch every third day throughout the playoff's? The answer is simple, Sabathia is the only guy the Yankees trusted. For all the talk about the Yankees adding a bat, look for the Yankees to add Lackey and I wouldn't be shocked if they added Bedard, Harden, or Sheets as well.

[Moose Milligan]

I would say it was pitching. But good pitching is harder and harder to find in the expansion era, and teams are depending now more on their offenses to win games IMO.

Good pitching may win playoff games, but it doesn't neccessarily mean that you will get to the playoffs unless you have a stellar offense to go with it.

However, you can have a mediocre staff and bash your way to the playoffs, that has been proven.

I don't even know where to begin.

Stacey brings up a good point about the Rangers. Lotta good Justin Smoak will do for them. When have they bashed their way to a title? Why did they bring Nolan Ryan in to look over the pitching development and focus more closely on pitching?

Cause even when they had an elite offense in the 90's they couldn't get to the playoffs every year. Same with the Tigers.

[Stacey]

I'd just like the Orioles to get to the playoffs. Then I'll worry about how far they go once they get there.

Well I'd rather have a team that's built the right way the first time.

[GoldGlove21]

I'd just like the Orioles to get to the playoffs. Then I'll worry about how far they go once they get there.

I just want the Orioles to finish above .500 for a change. The last time they were any good I was a senior. I got to give it to the Orioles front office, they have managed to make baseball more difficult than it should be for a while now.

[GoldGlove21]

Well I'd rather have a team that's built the right way the first time.

How do you build a team the right way the first time? You mean 1954?

[JTrea81]

I don't even know where to begin.

Stacey brings up a good point about the Rangers. Lotta good Justin Smoak will do for them. When have they bashed their way to a title? Why did they bring Nolan Ryan in to look over the pitching development and focus more closely on pitching?

Cause even when they had an elite offense in the 90's they couldn't get to the playoffs every year. Same with the Tigers.

Look nobody's saying that pitching isn't important. But you don't need the second coming of Palmer, McNally and Cuellar to compete.

A mediocre staff can get to the playoffs with the proper offensive support. And it's much easier to maintain a mediocre pitching staff given the volitile nature of pitching.

That's why I'd like to see MacPhail focus more on offensive upgrades, because I think we can compete even if Matusz and company don't quite become the aces that we think they will as long as they have the offense they need to back them up.

[Stacey]

How do you build a team the right way the first time? You mean 1954?

Pitching. Pitching, pitching, pitching. And then when you think you've got enough, you go get some more. And then you trust Andy MacPhail. I mean, I don't know what you're trying to say with "1954" but there you go.

[Sports Guy]

Look nobody's saying that pitching isn't important. But you don't need the second coming of Palmer, McNally and Cuellar to compete.

A mediocre staff can get to the playoffs with the proper offensive support. And it's much easier to maintain a mediocre pitching staff given the volitile nature of pitching.

That's why I'd like to see MacPhail focus more on offensive upgrades, because I think we can compete even if Matusz and company don't quite become the aces that we think they will as long as they have the offense they need to back them up.

Well, you are just wrong..We may be able to have a fluke season or something like that but you can't compete on a consistent basis, especially in our division, without very good pitching.

No matter how much you want to say differently, you are wrong in every possible way.

[Moose Milligan]

I'd just like the Orioles to get to the playoffs. Then I'll worry about how far they go once they get there.

Oh, so you'll worry about pitching after we've been bounced from the first round. Awesome.

[Scrat1]

I'd just like the Orioles to get to the playoffs. Then I'll worry about how far they go once they get there.

I want the Orioles to have a solid team that is competitive for a substantial period of time. You seem hell bent on making a team that is very likely to compete next year, but for only a year or two.

Patience.

[GoldGlove21]

Look nobody's saying that pitching isn't important. But you don't need the second coming of Palmer, McNally and Cuellar to compete.

A mediocre staff can get to the playoffs with the proper offensive support. And it's much easier to maintain a mediocre pitching staff given the volitile nature of pitching.

That's why I'd like to see MacPhail focus more on offensive upgrades, because I think we can compete even if Matusz and company don't quite become the aces that we think they will as long as they have the offense they need to back them up.

The Yankees staff was mediocre outside of Sabathia. Burnett had his moments, but they were not always good. I think that contract looks like a bad one in the end. Pitching is the quickest way towards being competitive year in and year out. This team needs 4-5 upgrades and the young players to deveop to compete IMO. I think Luke Scott can net you one of those missing players. Could anyone here argue that Delgado and Holliday would help the Orioles more than Lackey and Vasquez?

[GoldGlove21]

Pitching. Pitching, pitching, pitching. And then when you think you've got enough, you go get some more. And then you trust Andy MacPhail. I mean, I don't know what you're trying to say with "1954" but there you go.

I was unsure what you meant by building a team right the first time so I made a joke about 1954 because it was the first and only team so that must have been our only shot.

There are lots of ways to build a team. I do not care if you:

1.) Grow the arms and buy the bats.

2.) Grow the bats and buy the arms

3.) Grow the arms and trade for the bats

4.) Grow the bats and trade for the arms

5.) Buy everyone

I just think that a good front office doesn't let a team with a history of winning and a passionate fan base fall to the waste side without trying to make a real effort. Peter Angelos is obviously a much better lawyer than an owner.

[Sports Guy]

Al East stats only, in terms of team ERA.

2009: NY(4th), Tampa(6th), Boston(7th)....All 3 had a team ERA of 4.35 or lower...2 in playoffs..Even Toronto had a sub 4.50 ERA.

2008: TB(second), Boston(4th), Yankees(8th)...Yankees were 8th in AL but had a 4.28 ERA. Toronto led league with 3.49 ERA.

2007: Boston(1st), Yankees(8th)..Yankees had a 4.49 team ERA...Toronto was second.

This is just the last 3 years.

To compete in our division, we are going to need to have a 4.20ish ERA or better.

To contend for a WS, we need to have an offense to go along with it or we will end up as the BJs...But to say we can contend in this division with a mediocre staff is just wrong...NY can go out and have a 4.40 ERA because they can spend 120 million on their offense...We can't.

The Orioles have to be more balanced..across the board.

800ish team OPS, 4.20ish team ERA....those are the numbers to shoot for.

Anything short of them and we are probably winning 85ish games and always on the outside looking in.