International FAILURES Continue...

[TinCup]

Wow...a four page thread hung on this slender reed of second-hand opinion.

Is it possible that this means the Orioles DR organization is a mess? Yes. Is it possible that this means nothing? Yes.

The only conclusion I can draw from that qoute is it's made one hell of a four-page-long mirror...reflecting everyone's prejudices with crystal clarity.

(Now Tony's post worries me greatly. As usual, his information carries much more weight with me than ESPN hearsay.)

True enough, but there's been far too much of this "smoke" for far too long. Makes you have to think real hard (again) about whether there is in fact a "fire" causing this smoke.....

[bird watcher]

But then we won't get those great Google Translator classics like Michael Roof

Welcome aboard. It's always good to find people spreading the good word* on the Orioles to the far-flung corners of the globe

*As rare as "good words" tend to be, as this thread shows.

You mean the famous "robber of bases"?

[Lucky Jim]

Why am I not surpised by this blurb from Roch in the comments:

How does he expect O's fans to "check with the Orioles"? What? I love Roch, but he gets so defensive and stubborn when he has to address fans freaking out about stuff. We're fans, that's what we do. Throw us a bone, here.

Yeah, I responded because that response was uncalled for:

**********

And how many of these fans even heard of the Dominican Prospect League before today? Or bothered to check with the Orioles before freaking out? I'm just asking. - Roch

**********

How exactly would anyone check with the club about this? Does the front office have a customer service hotline? The point isn't whether folks have heard of the league before, it's that the league exists, it costs nothing to go to a game, and the Orioles were identified as one of two teams that hadn't been around regularly. In fact, most people would probably accept a good explanation from the O's. That's why you had two separate people ask about it - including me, above.

But how do we explain the sub-par international presence over the years? I mean, it's great that we've expanded a bit, but bumping up one scout in Latin America isn't exactly an exponential expansion.

All folks want is an explanation: were the O's there regularly? And if not, why not?

[Lucky Jim]

Yeah, good response. I mean, really. And he wonders why people get on him about being on the payroll. I don't buy that at all, but if your job is to relate information to the fanbase, then do that.

Yeah, he's clearly just perturbed about the general tenor of the dialogue. He's also clearly been reading the OH.

Look, to an extent he's right. We don't know the story. The source is singular. The story is largely unverified. On the other hand...

[Stotle]

Yeah, I responded because that response was uncalled for:

He responded:

Folks aren't waiting for an explanation, Jim. They're in full freakout mode now. THAT'S what annoys me. - Roch

Let me apologize to the board and to Orioles fans for causing a "sky is falling" freakout. The organization clearly has earned the benefit of our doubt with its past activities in Latin America, and my overreaction was uncalled for.

[Peace21]

I'm a bit shocked about Roch's response. Seems like you got under his skin Lucky.

[Peace21]

Fair enough (although I've never freaked out about FA signings on his blog before, but I get what he's saying). I just posted another comment stating that that was all I looking for. He should realize that just saying some kind of opinion or saying "I'll look into it" makes a lot of us feel better. O's fans freak out. 12 years of losing.

I rather hear an explanation from our people in the Dominican than from an Orioles official here.

[RShack]

Yeah, he's clearly just perturbed about the general tenor of the dialogue. He's also clearly been reading the OH.

Look, to an extent he's right. We don't know the story. The source is singular. The story is largely unverified. On the other hand...

Your response to him was appropriate. In general, I like the guy, but not only was it silly of him to complain that people had not checked with the Orioles when there is no way to do that, it was especially lame that he complained about that *instead* of checking himself. Maybe we can't check, but he can. He should've just done the checking and reported on what he found out. I wonder why he didn't. Now, I could say that it's probably because it was too much trouble, and complaining is easier. However, instead of jumping to conclusions like that, I'll say, "I'm just asking..."

Also, any discussions about Roch's knowledge superiority must be confined to passing witticisms. The guy was atrocious in left ;-)

[SoBo]

Selig has made a point of making the draft international. In an attempt to level the playing field on the international side of the equation. If the draft were to become international and not just domestic, what effect would that have on these dominican leagues and schools?

[Lucky Jim]

Sounds like he'll ask Andy about it at some point, which is good.

My current thought on all of this, and I'll basically leave it at this, (and call it an "excuse" if you want) is that there is more evidence to suggest that improving the international presence is a focus of the MacPhail regime (even if it's not happening as quick as we'd like) than that it isn't. An ESPN blurb containing a quote from a guy who started the league shouldn't derail the thought process that MacPhail is doing positive things and that he is indeed improving the international presence.

Are we more concerned about Angelos handcuffing him than we were previously? Sure. But like I said, there's simply more proof that international scouting is improving than not. It's just going to be more difficult than we had thought, which is unfortunate, obviously.

EDIT: Also, it's good to be back and posting on the OH. I had let my subscription lapse but screw that.

These are valid points. That said, I think it's also true that - even if there has been an improvement - there's a good argument that it's still not enough. I think there could be good explanations for this: I've seen MacPhail quotes about studies showing that the high-cost international FAs just don't pay dividends at a rate we're comfortable with; I also think there's a legitimate - if not entirely convincing - argument that the development of our presence has been too slow, too incremental, etc..

So, getting better. But is it enough?

I wouldn't adopt the over-the-top tone of the initial post (not a criticism, it does appear to be intentionally over-the-top) because I want to hear both sides of something before I decide. But there's certainly ample reason to be suspicious.

[Stotle]

These are valid points. That said, I think it's also true that - even if there has been an improvement - there's a good argument that it's still not enough. I think there could be good explanations for this: I've seen MacPhail quotes about studies showing that the high-cost international FAs just don't pay dividends at a rate we're comfortable with; I also think there's a legitimate - if not entirely convincing - argument that the development of our presence has been too slow, too incremental, etc..

So, getting better. But is it enough?

I wouldn't adopt the over-the-top tone of the initial post (not a criticism, it does appear to be intentionally over-the-top) because I want to hear both sides of something before I decide. But there's certainly ample reason to be suspicious.

I definitely admit it was over-the-top. I'm also open to whatever explanation the Warehouse might have. But the bottom line is a pretty sad one when you scrape the blurb down it's basics:

1. There is a Dominican league that has been designed to make viewing young prospects as easy as possible for ML organizations

2. There has been a positive response from at least some ML teams to the league, including at least 7 signings of not insignificant size (but not "top tier")

3. BAL was one of two teams that jumped to mind as "not regularly present" when one of the leagues creators was asked about the reaction of ML organizations to the league

I'll absolutely grant that in the long run, the odds are that BAL isn't going to find a game-changing player in this league (which primarily showcases kids that are eligible and have not yet been signed). I guess my frustration is that this is a situation where someone is doing the heavy lifting in gathering talent in a tough-to-scout area heavily reliant on "who you know" and your reputation. It seems to be the easiest way imaginable to see a large collection of players.

I love to try and get a glimpse of amateur players here in the US. I don't have the resources to send people out with cameras to film HS games and send them to me, so I make use of large showcases that attract the best HS talent. It makes things so much, SO MUCH, easier -- I guess I jumped to the conclusion that the same would be true of this league in the DR.

Sorry if I riled people up for nothing; I tried to warn everyone with my "I'm not one for hyperbole" intro. Heck, I even tagged the thread something like "stotle loses it".

[Tony-OH]

JOHN Stockstill is not part of the problem. He is just part of the hopeful answer in the future. He is doing what he can under a fairly strict budget, but he has very little to do with the DR.

[crowmst3k!]

I don't get AS freaked out by Stotle's post, but by Tony's response. If MacPhail can't dislodge some ineffective personnel in the intl scouting side of things because of unearned favoritism with ownership, then the Orioles still have the same problems that have held them back for years.

I take Tony's observations very seriously.

[Lucky Jim]

I definitely admit it was over-the-top. I'm also open to whatever explanation the Warehouse might have. But the bottom line is a pretty sad one when you scrape the blurb down it's basics:

1. There is a Dominican league that has been designed to make viewing young prospects as easy as possible for ML organizations

2. There has been a positive response from at least some ML teams to the league, including at least 7 signings of not insignificant size (but not "top tier")

3. BAL was one of two teams that jumped to mind as "not regularly present" when one of the leagues creators was asked about the reaction of ML organizations to the league

I'll absolutely grant that in the long run, the odds are that BAL isn't going to find a game-changing player in this league (which primarily showcases kids that are eligible and have not yet been signed). I guess my frustration is that this is a situation where someone is doing the heavy lifting in gathering talent in a tough-to-scout area heavily reliant on "who you know" and your reputation. It seems to be the easiest way imaginable to see a large collection of players.

I love to try and get a glimpse of amateur players here in the US. I don't have the resources to send people out with cameras to film HS games and send them to me, so I make use of large showcases that attract the best HS talent. It makes things so much, SO MUCH, easier -- I guess I jumped to the conclusion that the same would be true of this league in the DR.

Sorry if I riled people up for nothing; I tried to warn everyone with my "I'm not one for hyperbole" intro. Heck, I even tagged the thread something like "stotle loses it".

I think all of this is accurate. The only issue for me is the source: (i) it's singular; and (ii) it's an agent.

I just don't trust that, standing alone. Though I have my suspicions. Then again, this isn't a hot-button issue for me, as it is for you.

After all, I'm a bastion of patience and reasonableness.

[amateurfan]

Why am I not surpised by this blurb from Roch in the comments:

How does he expect O's fans to "check with the Orioles"? What? I love Roch, but he gets so defensive and stubborn when he has to address fans freaking out about stuff. We're fans, that's what we do. Throw us a bone, here.

I don't understand why he got defensive in the first place. It's not "his" team. He's a journalist.