Postseason awards?

[HeatherC12]

Josh Hamilton should be a candidate for Rookie of the Year but I don't think he qualifies for Comeback Player of the Year even though his is a wonderful comeback story. I think the injuries Josh had this year will keep him from getting too many votes in the Rookie category, although I wouldn't be surprised to see him still finish in about third place overall. He had a fantastic year, especially considering how far he had to come!

[DrungoHazewood]

Although I'd vote for Rollins....who cares about Coors Field? Holliday is extremely valuable to his team and would be more than deserving of this award. His team happens to play in that park. I'm so sick of hearing people whine about numbers from Coors Field as if they mean less to the Rockies than other people's numbers do to other teams.

Let me ask you this: if the Rockies played on a local little league field and Holliday hit 387 homers would you discount those a bit?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Let me ask you this: if the Rockies played on a local little league field and Holliday hit 387 homers would you discount those a bit?

Hy-per-bo-le.

[DrungoHazewood]

Hy-per-bo-le.

Exaggeration to make a point. You have to discount the Rockies' offensive numbers and give extra credit to their pitchers because of their extreme environment. 35 homers in Colorado are most definitely not the same value as 35 homers in OPACY or Dodger Stadium or Kansas City.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Exaggeration to make a point. You have to discount the Rockies' offensive numbers and give extra credit to their pitchers because of their extreme environment. 35 homers in Colorado are most definitely not the same value as 35 homers in OPACY or Dodger Stadium or Kansas City.

So does Jimmy Rollins get extra points for hitting 20 tripes in Philly? Or does he lose points for hitting 30 HR in Philly? Does David Wright gain or lose points because of the offense he was in? Do we take away from Holliday because he hit over .340 in Colorado?

You can argue that any player should gain/lose credit -- I'd rather look at the stats themselves and if I'm not mistaken the Coors effect has lessened considerably over the years.

[NJOriolesFan]

I know this will look like a stupid pick and WARP-3 doesn't necessarily support it, but my choice for MVP is from out of left field. Nobody was more valuable to his team than Eric Byrnes was to the Diamondbacks. In the same sense that Kirk Gibson was to the Dodgers in 1988. Sure there are guys with better numbers but Byrnes was a higher percent of his team's offense than most of the guys we mention and played a great defense and had a knack for coming through in the clutch this year. His numbers look unspectacular but he is the reason that the D'Backs are where they are right now. You can't really make much of a case for any other offensive player on Arizona being in the top 50 in the league.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I know this will look like a stupid pick and WARP-3 doesn't necessarily support it, but my choice for MVP is from out of left field. Nobody was more valuable to his team than Eric Byrnes was to the Diamondbacks. In the same sense that Kirk Gibson was to the Dodgers in 1988. Sure there are guys with better numbers but Byrnes was a higher percent of his team's offense than most of the guys we mention and played a great defense and had a knack for coming through in the clutch this year. His numbers look unspectacular but he is the reason that the D'Backs are where they are right now. You can't really make much of a case for any other offensive player on Arizona being in the top 50 in the league.

Ehhh, I'd argue Brandon Webb or, most precisely, the entire bullpen is the reason the DBacks are where they are right now.

[sangell2007]

Let me ask you this: if the Rockies played on a local little league field and Holliday hit 387 homers would you discount those a bit?

My point is directed more towards the MVP award, which I view as being a race between (in the N.L.) 16 guys - the Most Valuable Player for each team. Matt Holliday is clearly the most valuable player on the Rockies, who all get to play in Coors Field 81 times a year. I think his value to the Rockies is certainly comparable to Rollins' value to the Phillies or Fielder's value to the Brewers. As I said, I'd vote for Rollins. But if Holliday won, I wouldn't be upset and I certainly wouldn't care that he plays in Coors Field.

In other words, to you and longflyball, I think discounting or severely handicapping someone for this award because of the park they play in is very shortsighted.

If we're talking about a guy hitting 75 home runs next year in Coors Field, then yeah, I may view that a little differently than a guy who hits 75 home runs playing their home games in Chavez Ravine.

[longflyball]

My point is directed more towards the MVP award, which I view as being a race between (in the N.L.) 16 guys - the Most Valuable Player for each team. Matt Holliday is clearly the most valuable player on the Rockies, who all get to play in Coors Field 81 times a year. I think his value to the Rockies is certainly comparable to Rollins' value to the Phillies or Fielder's value to the Brewers. As I said, I'd vote for Rollins. But if Holliday won, I wouldn't be upset and I certainly wouldn't care that he plays in Coors Field.

In other words, to you and longflyball, I think discounting or severely handicapping someone for this award because of the park they play in is very shortsighted.

If we're talking about a guy hitting 75 home runs next year in Coors Field, then yeah, I may view that a little differently than a guy who hits 75 home runs playing their home games in Chavez Ravine.

Our disagreement cuts to the debate surrounding the nature of the MVP award. Should it go to the best player, period? Or should consideration also go to the 2nd or 3rd or 4th best player if is he far and away more crucial to his team's success, such as a player who leads his team to the playoffs by hitting 45 home runs and driving in 115 in the middle of an otherwise dreadful lineup. I tend to lean to the latter.

But Holliday shouldn't win in either case. He's not the best player in the league. And he had a stronger supporting cast than David Wright. Rollins also had a stronger supporting cast than Wright.

[sangell2007]

Our disagreement cuts to the debate surrounding the nature of the MVP award. Should it go to the best player, period? Or should consideration also go to the 2nd or 3rd or 4th best player if is he far and away more crucial to his team's success, such as a player who leads his team to the playoffs by hitting 45 home runs and driving in 115 in the middle of an otherwise dreadful lineup. I tend to lean to the latter.

But Holliday shouldn't win in either case. He's not the best player in the league. And he had a stronger supporting cast than David Wright. Rollins also had a stronger supporting cast than Wright.

Yeah, there are definitely two schools of thought and I guess we'll agree to disagree. To me, the MVP is not simply the best player. And he's not necessarily the one who did the most to help his team get into the playoffs. There are a lot of intangibles involved, such as Jimmy Rollins making his pre-season prediction and then leading the Phillies' charge towards the playoffs.

Regardless, though, I don't see Wright having a weaker supporting cast than Rollins or certainly Holliday. Weren't the Mets regarded as the best team in the N.L. for much of the year? Wasn't Jose Reyes also a legitimate MVP candidate coming into the stretch run? And if you're going to argue that without him, their collapse would have been even worse...it couldn't have gotten much worse. Wright is a great player who has none of the intangibles going for him, IMO.

[mweb]

Holliday had better offensive numbers than Wright almost across the board (Wright had slightly better OBP and obviously a ton more steals). Thats not park adjusted, but they were very close offensively.

Rollins can't match the OPS+ of the other guys, but theres a lot to be said for his all around great play, plus he's doing it from a less offensive position.

I think its very hard to argue that Wright, Holliday, and Rollins are not very close in the race for who was the most valuable player.

Considering position, defense, baserunning, and park, Wright is quite a bit better than Holliday imo. As of the end of August, Wright was the best defensive 3rd baseman accrording to the ZR link BMoron postedwith a +28compared to Holliday with a +1. Big difference there. Wright also created 7 more runs, had a 152 OPS+ compared to a 151 for Holliday. So Wright was easily the more valuable defensive player, was more valuable on the bases, and was better at the plate.

BP has Wright at over a win better than Holliday even though their unreliable defensive rating says Holliday was better.

[mweb]

So does Jimmy Rollins get extra points for hitting 20 tripes in Philly? Or does he lose points for hitting 30 HR in Philly? Does David Wright gain or lose points because of the offense he was in? Do we take away from Holliday because he hit over .340 in Colorado?

You can argue that any player should gain/lose credit -- I'd rather look at the stats themselves and if I'm not mistaken the Coors effect has lessened considerably over the years.

Yes, one should consider parks in this. A players run contribution is more valuable in an environment where less runs are scored. A players run production is less valuable in an environment where a high amount of runs are scored.

Lets just two both players produce 1 run a game on average. Well if one guys does it in games where 9 runs scored is the average of both teams playing, and the other does in games where 11 runs scored is the average, the former was more valuable since he's contributing 1/9th of the runs in the games he plays while the latter is contributing 1/11th of the runs scored.

[mweb]

Yeah, there are definitely two schools of thought and I guess we'll agree to disagree. To me, the MVP is not simply the best player. And he's not necessarily the one who did the most to help his team get into the playoffs. There are a lot of intangibles involved, such as Jimmy Rollins making his pre-season prediction and then leading the Phillies' charge towards the playoffs.

Regardless, though, I don't see Wright having a weaker supporting cast than Rollins or certainly Holliday. Weren't the Mets regarded as the best team in the N.L. for much of the year? Wasn't Jose Reyes also a legitimate MVP candidate coming into the stretch run? And if you're going to argue that without him, their collapse would have been even worse...it couldn't have gotten much worse. Wright is a great player who has none of the intangibles going for him, IMO.

First of all, who really knows who has the better intangibles besides the intangible that was winning 1 more game out of 162 and having their team finish strong instead of playing fading late.

Jose Reyes was awful in September, as was the pitching, that's not Wright's fault. David Wright had a 1.034 OPS in September, better than Rollins who was no better in September than he was the rest of the year. Now Holliday was better at the plate in September.

I don't even get how Rollins lead their charge in September, Howard was much better at the plate that month, and their best player, Chase Utley, was just as good, and is a better defensive player. Lets not forget Burrell, who was incredible in July and August, and solid in September. Rollins doesn't even stand out on his own team as an MVP candidate.

[Sports Guy]

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/whos-going-to-be-the-mvp/

[sangell2007]

I guess I just dislike the culture of baseball that has developed where it's all about stats. To me, it means so much more that a guy was an offensive leader on a team that charged from dead in fourth place to the Wild Card with an amazing end-of-the-season run, or that a guy stuck his neck out and called his team "the team to beat" and then did more than his fair share in helping his team live up to that statement. Stats are nice, and obviously these guys have stats that get them in the conversation. But once you're in the conversation, there should be more than just boring stat analysis.