What If Tejada Is Traded?

[Boca Bird]

Remember...the Tigers were even more horid than we are just a few short years ago. I would be excited to truly rebuild. I am only 47...hopefully I have a few more years in which to see the first Oriole WS without Jim Palmer...then again maybe we could do a Minny Minoso with Jimbo.

Imagine...Kakes and Cakes.

And people always forget that the start of the Tigers rebuilding was overpaying for IRod and Ordonez, as opposed to "waiting for the market to establish itself". They then proceded to draft well and signed their top picks. In other words, they had a two-pronged attack that included the draft and free agency. Conspicuously, the Tigers plan did not include trying to operate on the cheap or inundating the fan base with shameless promises and excuses.

AS far as I can tell, the only consistent element of the Orioles "plan" is to use the word "plan" as a way of explaining away any shortcomings or failures. Oh, we couldn't acquire so and so because he didn't fit into the "plan."

Ergh, @*&!)@#$~!*!#&@$^#!

[inmiggywetrust]

dont trade Tejada. We are going to win with him, not without him. We are going to win with our young players (Markakis, Patterson, Roberts and the young pitchers) combining with good additions in the offseason/at the deadline. We must overspend to compete and Tejada should not be traded. Unless we are compltely blown away with an offer of Santana, Weaver, Kotchman, Wood, we should not trade him. Just my two cents.

[Pedro Cerrano]

dont trade Tejada. We are going to win with him, not without him. We are going to win with our young players (Markakis, Patterson, Roberts and the young pitchers) combining with good additions in the offseason/at the deadline. We must overspend to compete and Tejada should not be traded. Unless we are compltely blown away with an offer of Santana, Weaver, Kotchman, Wood, we should not trade him. Just my two cents.

It hasn't happened yet, what makes you think '07 will be 20-25 games different (the amount it would take to contend)?

[Fan4Life]

dont trade Tejada. We are going to win with him, not without him. We are going to win with our young players (Markakis, Patterson, Roberts and the young pitchers) combining with good additions in the offseason/at the deadline. We must overspend to compete and Tejada should not be traded. Unless we are compltely blown away with an offer of Santana, Weaver, Kotchman, Wood, we should not trade him. Just my two cents.

I think most everyone knows what we "should do", the issue is what are we (PA) willing to do.

[delaware bird]

Are you a samurai or something?

No. Simply somebody who understands that there is more to the game than the result. It's called pride.

In my opinion, the Marlins pulled the rug from underneath the Miami fans. To rip the core out of the team and then ask the fans to come back in 2-3 years is not the way you run a ball club.

I am not saying the Orioles are the way to run a club either. But at least they haven't rolled over and given up.

Not the victory but the action.

Not the goal but the game.

In the deed the glory.

[CrimsonTribe]

No. Simply somebody who understands that there is more to the game than the result. It's called pride.

In my opinion, the Marlins pulled the rug from underneath the Miami fans. To rip the core out of the team and then ask the fans to come back in 2-3 years is not the way you run a ball club.

I am not saying the Orioles are the way to run a club either. But at least they haven't rolled over and given up.

Not the victory but the action.

Not the goal but the game.

In the deed the glory.

How is developing a plan that will get you the best results giving up? Seems better than repeatedly trying the same unsuccessful thing over and over and over and over and over and over and so on. Look at where the Marlins are. Look at where we are. Who has the better chance to win sooner? They do. That's called giving your fans something to look forward to rather than slowly strangling them with ineptitude.

[geschinger]

And people always forget that the start of the Tigers rebuilding was overpaying for IRod and Ordonez, as opposed to "waiting for the market to establish itself". They then proceded to draft well and signed their top picks. In other words, they had a two-pronged attack that included the draft and free agency. Conspicuously, the Tigers plan did not include trying to operate on the cheap or inundating the fan base with shameless promises and excuses.

Complete BS. The start of the Tigers rebuilding was being willing to suffer with the youngins even if it meant over 100 losses and are reaping the benefits now. They have those two big signings and while Ordonez is having a decent year the O's more than matched that signing with Tejada. And the O's are getting the same if not more production from their Free Agent catcher.

AS far as I can tell, the only consistent element of the Orioles "plan" is to use the word "plan" as a way of explaining away any shortcomings or failures. Oh, we couldn't acquire so and so because he didn't fit into the "plan."

Ergh, @*&!)@#$~!*!#&@$^#!

Tell me how the Tigers plan is different than the Flanagan's stated approach to stockpile young pitching? The only difference I see at this point is that their young pitchers have turned the corner quicker than the O's pitchers have.

[delaware bird]

How is developing a plan that will get you the best results giving up? Seems better than repeatedly trying the same unsuccessful thing over and over and over and over and over and over and so on. Look at where the Marlins are. Look at where we are. Who has the better chance to win sooner? They do. That's called giving your fans something to look forward to rather than slowly strangling them with ineptitude.

We agree to disagree. You seem to look only at W's and L's. To surrender a season (or two or three!) is disgraceful. To give a 1/2 hearted attempt is silly, but not awful. Yes the Orioles have either seemed to lack a plan or been too willing to change it frequently. But to give up, to roll over and be dead for seasons. . . is horrific.

Again, I go back to the best example I can give you. The words of former NY Jet head coach Herm Edwards. When asked if he was going to play rookies and sit his veterans in the last few games of the week, knowing he was out of playoff contention (in essence trying to lose games to move up the draft ladder), he responded:

"You play to win the game. You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game."

Each game. Every game. That is pride. That is how the game should be played.

[CrimsonTribe]

We agree to disagree. You seem to look only at W's and L's. To surrender a season (or two or three!) is disgraceful. To give a 1/2 hearted attempt is silly, but not awful. Yes the Orioles have either seemed to lack a plan or been too willing to change it frequently. But to give up, to roll over and be dead for seasons. . . is horrific.

Again, I go back to the best example I can give you. The words of former NY Jet head coach Herm Edwards. When asked if he was going to play rookies and sit his veterans in the last few games of the week, knowing he was out of playoff contention (in essence trying to lose games to move up the draft ladder), he responded:

"You play to win the game. You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game."

Each game. Every game. That is pride. That is how the game should be played.

We can agree to disagree, but a couple of points:

1. The Marlins are 6 games out of the wild card, you seem to be missing that fact. Not that I'd disagree w/ their approach if their results came less quickly.

2. Herm Edwards is not a very good football coach. He yells a lot, but he's not that good. Raised noise levels do not equal wisdom.

3. Too much pride will get you nowhere. Try being humble and realizing that sometimes you have to suck up your pride. You're not selling out your fans or being disgraceful if you are trying to do the right thing by them.

[geschinger]

We agree to disagree. You seem to look only at W's and L's. To surrender a season (or two or three!) is disgraceful. To give a 1/2 hearted attempt is silly, but not awful. Yes the Orioles have either seemed to lack a plan or been too willing to change it frequently. But to give up, to roll over and be dead for seasons. . . is horrific.

Again, I go back to the best example I can give you. The words of former NY Jet head coach Herm Edwards. When asked if he was going to play rookies and sit his veterans in the last few games of the week, knowing he was out of playoff contention (in essence trying to lose games to move up the draft ladder), he responded:

"You play to win the game. You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game."

Each game. Every game. That is pride. That is how the game should be played.

I agree that what the Marlins did was bad but only because it happened so soon after winning. However, blowing it up and obtaining legitimate prospects and being willing to suffer for a season or two while the young guys develop is most definately a legitimate way to run things.

[utvolzac]

We agree to disagree. You seem to look only at W's and L's. To surrender a season (or two or three!) is disgraceful. To give a 1/2 hearted attempt is silly, but not awful. Yes the Orioles have either seemed to lack a plan or been too willing to change it frequently. But to give up, to roll over and be dead for seasons. . . is horrific.

Again, I go back to the best example I can give you. The words of former NY Jet head coach Herm Edwards. When asked if he was going to play rookies and sit his veterans in the last few games of the week, knowing he was out of playoff contention (in essence trying to lose games to move up the draft ladder), he responded:

"You play to win the game. You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game."

Each game. Every game. That is pride. That is how the game should be played.

What are you talking about? The Marlins are six games out of the playoffs. Almost all the guys the traded for were major league ready and almost all of them have contributed or are contributing to the team right now.

They were building a team for today as well as the future, how is that giving up.

[BigSkip]

I agree that what the Marlins did was bad but only because it happened so soon after winning. However, blowing it up and obtaining legitimate prospects and being willing to suffer for a season or two while the young guys develop is most definately a legitimate way to run things.

What the Marlins did may seem bad, but it works. It's not like they have much choice, seeing as how even when they're winning they can't make any money down there.

Hell, half the players they've unloaded aren't exactly on fire with their new teams. See Juan Pierre.

[davearm]

No. Simply somebody who understands that there is more to the game than the result. It's called pride.

In my opinion, the Marlins pulled the rug from underneath the Miami fans. To rip the core out of the team and then ask the fans to come back in 2-3 years is not the way you run a ball club.

I am not saying the Orioles are the way to run a club either. But at least they haven't rolled over and given up.

Not the victory but the action.

Not the goal but the game.

In the deed the glory.

Did the Marlins really pull the rug from underneath the Miami fans though?

The Marlins did their part by fielding quality, contending teams in 2003 - 2005. They won it all of course in 2003, and instead of blowing that team up, they kept the pedal down and acquired guys like Delgado to try and win again.

In response, Miami fans stayed away from the ballpark in droves. Their attendance has been downright pathetic:

28th in the majors in 2003, the year of the championship.

26th 2004, the year after the WS.

28th last year, despite narrowly missing the playoffs.

This year, they're dead last, barely on pace for 1M fans.

If the folks down there actually supported the team by buying tickets and showing up when the team was winning (not to mention, backing a new stadium plan), then trimming payroll to rediculous levels and rebuilding wouldn't be such a necessity.

The bottom line is that the fans' apathy forced the Marlins' hands on this, so it's kinda rediculous to paint the organization as the dastardly villians, and the fans as the sympathetic victims here.

[CrimsonTribe]

Did the Marlins really pull the rug from underneath the Miami fans though?

The Marlins did their part by fielding quality, contending teams in 2003 - 2005. They won it all of course in 2003, and instead of blowing that team up, they kept the pedal down and acquired guys like Delgado to try and win again.

In response, Miami fans stayed away from the ballpark in droves. Their attendance has been downright pathetic:

28th in the majors in 2003, the year of the championship.

26th 2004, the year after the WS.

28th last year, despite narrowly missing the playoffs.

This year, they're dead last, barely on pace for 1M fans.

If the folks down there actually supported the team by buying tickets and showing up when the team was winning (not to mention, backing a new stadium plan), then trimming payroll to rediculous levels and rebuilding wouldn't be such a necessity.

The bottom line is that the fans' apathy forced the Marlins' hands on this, so it's kinda rediculous to paint the organization as the dastardly villians, and the fans as the sympathetic victims here.

This is an even better point than any of the ones that I have made.

[geschinger]

If the folks down there actually supported the team by buying tickets and showing up when the team was winning (not to mention, backing a new stadium plan), then trimming payroll to rediculous levels and rebuilding wouldn't be such a necessity.

The bottom line is that the fans' apathy forced the Marlins' hands on this, so it's kinda rediculous to paint the organization as the dastardly villians, and the fans as the sympathetic victims here.

In fairness the Marlins do get good TV ratings. The fans' apathy might have more to do w/the stadium formerly known as Joe Robbie Stadium might just be the worst place in all of baseball to watch a ballgame.