What If Tejada Is Traded?

[mikezpen]

I am one of the fools who wants to build around Miguel Tejada. If this is a trade being pushed by Angelos, then it's a glorified salary dump and a way of getting rid of someone who has become a drag on the team because he called a spade a spade last winter. You will get one fairly good prospect and then a couple of people who will probably never make it. It will be a bad trade, probably one of the worst in the team's history.

And even if it's not being pushed by Angelos, you have a mediocre front office that will not get remotely as much as they should get. The Angels, according to reports, are already saying their best prospects are off limits.They have no respect for the Orioles and are sitting there licking their chops, knowing full well they will make a killing.

Some people here still consider this part of this wonderful "plan" the Orioles have to improve.They think this is a well thought-out move to improve the Orioles in several places over the long run. I don't think it is; I think it's being pushed by an owner who was dissed by Tejada and is unloading him as a result. I'm surprised he's lasted in Baltimore this long.

I think I hear the distant ringing of that cash register. Angelos is getting richer, and we're being screwed-again.

[TinCup]

I am one of the fools who wants to build around Miguel Tejada. If this is a trade being pushed by Angelos, then it's a glorified salary dump and a way of getting rid of someone who has become a drag on the team because he called a spade a spade last winter. You will get one fairly good prospect and then a couple of people who will probably never make it. It will be a bad trade, probably one of the worst in the team's history.

And even if it's not being pushed by Angelos, you have a mediocre front office that will not get remotely as much as they should get. The Angels, according to reports, are already saying their best prospects are off limits.They have no respect for the Orioles and are sitting there licking their chops, knowing full well they will make a killing.

Some people here still consider this part of this wonderful "plan" the Orioles have to improve.They think this is a well thought-out move to improve the Orioles in several places over the long run. I don't think it is; I think it's being pushed by an owner who was dissed by Tejada and is unloading him as a result. I'm surprised he's lasted in Baltimore this long.

I think I hear the distant ringing of that cash register. Angelos is getting richer, and we're being screwed-again.

Not that I entirely disagree with you, but you continue to describe a classic "lose-lose" scenario for the O's. The ol' "damned if you do, damned if you don't" enigma.

We have not built around Miggy, continue to lose and show no signs of being able to truly and effectively build around him for the long haul.

Yet, if we trade him, we are doomed as well......

Such a plight.

[droper]

Look at what the Cubs got for Sammy Sosa. It was nothing for a guy who could have netted a truckload of prospects a couple years earlier. There were calls from very few Cubs fans that they needed to dump him while they could still get something for him even back in 2002, 2003.

I'm not saying Tejada will be out of baseball in three years but the odds are with his shriking fielding range, attachment to greenies and steriods (B12) and the possibility of him deciding to tell the world he wants out again, that he'll never be worth more than he is right now, and the number is going to start falling soon and it will be drastic once it begins.

[wildcard]

The O's can't trade Miggy for prospects.

If they do it sends a signal that they are giving up on 2007 and 2008. I for one would give up my O's tickets and take a break from O's baseball for a while. It would show me that they don't think they can build a winner in the near future or that they do not have a clue.

Right now the O's building effort is center around the maturing of their young arms. That is true because they have a core of players built around Miggy that with two or three additional players could win.

If they trade Miggy for prospects it doesn't matter what the young arms do because prospects are not going to help this team win for a couple of years. Probably not until 2009.

I would basically take my time and money and redirect it some where else.

[TinCup]

The O's can't trade Miggy for prospects.

If they do it sends a signal that they are giving up on 2007 and 2008. I for one would give up my O's tickets and take a break from O's baseball for a while. It would show me that they don't think they can build a winner in the near future or that they do not have a clue.

Right now the O's building effort is center around the maturing of their young arms. That is true because they have a core of players built around Miggy that with two or three additional players could win.

If they trade Miggy for prospects it doesn't matter what the young arms do because prospects are not going to help this team win for a couple of years. Probably not until 2009.

I would basically take my time and money and redirect it some where else.

For every one who thinks like you, that we will magically compete next year or even in 2008, there is someone like me saying you are off your rocker.

Loewen, Penn, DCab, Bedard,and someone else (Benson) would all have to pitch lights out next year.

Figure the odds!

In addition, who plays LF?

Where is the other big bat (or two) coming from for the future?

Who plays 1B?

Who plays DH?

Giving up on 2007 and 2008....yes, why not, that would be a realistic way of looking at things.

The young arms can't in and of themselves be our Holy Grail, there has to be more to the plan than simply the arms.

That said, I know I will never change your mind WC.

[wildcard]

For every one who thinks like you, that we will magically compete next year or even in 2008, there is someone like me saying you are off your rocker.

Loewen, Penn, DCab, Bedard,and someone else (Benson) would all have to pitch lights out next year.

Figure the odds!

In addition, who plays LF?

Where is the other big bat (or two) coming from for the future?

Who plays 1B?

Who plays DH?

Giving up on 2007 and 2008....yes, why not, that would be a realistic way of looking at things.

The young arms can't in and of themselves be our Holy Grail, there has to be more to the plan than simply the arms.

That said, I know I will never change your mind WC.

If Flanagan and Duquette think like you they should quit right now. Their contract runs through 2008. If the have no chance of winning in that period they are gone and probably the rest of the FO with them.

They are banking on young pitching getting better next year and putting the O's in contention in 2008. They need an offense over the next two years that can support the young pitchers in that progress.

Miggy is a key part of the offense. Gibbons can fill either DH or 1B. The current team is a winning team against righthanded pitching. They just can't win against lefties enough to be competitive. The additions in leftfield and 1B/DH need to hit lefties.

Craig Wilson is available to fill 1B or DH. Maybe even Shealy if they can pry him out of Colorado. Leftfield. Maybe Carlos Lee. Maybe a trade. If Val keeps progressing, may they trade him for a good young righthanded hitter. Maybe Terrero find himself in Baltimore.

There are many options if they keep Miggy. If they trade Miggy for prospects, Flanagan and Duquette are done because they will never be a winner during their contract term.

[Mackus]

I don't think there is an answer to the question of whether or not we should trade Miggy.

By that, I mean that moving or keeping him won't make one ounce of difference for the future of the franchise if its not followed up by a series of moves. It is impossible for us to win if we trade Miggy and don't make several other moves. It is equally impossible for us to win if we keep Miggy and don't make several other moves (unless our pitching really explodes, which is unlikely).

The key to determining if trading Miggy is a good idea is determining how likely it is to be able to make all the moves required to build a winner around either Miggy or the package we get in return for him. There are ways to build us into a contender, in roughly the same amount of time, by going down each of these two paths.

I personally feel that it will be easier to build a winner faster by keeping Miggy, and that the current "plan" involves keeping Miggy. I also feel that if we keep him, we'll have a lot more margin for error on the following moves, it will be ok if one of the moves isn't a great one. If we move him, we're going to need a string of very good moves in order to compete quickly.

[TinCup]

If Flanagan and Duquette think like you they should quit right now. Their contract runs through 2008. If the have no chance of winning in that period they are gone and probably the rest of the FO with them.

They are banking on young pitching getting better next year and putting the O's in contention in 2008. They need an offense over the next two years that can support the young pitchers in that progress.

Miggy is a key part of the offense. Gibbons can fill either DH or 1B. The current team is a winning team against righthanded pitching. They just can't win against lefties enough to be competitive. The additions in leftfield and 1B/DH need to hit lefties.

Craig Wilson is available to fill 1B or DH. Maybe even Shealy if they can pry him out of Colorado. Leftfield. Maybe Carlos Lee. Maybe a trade. If Val keeps progressing, may they trade him for a good young righthanded hitter. Maybe Terrero find himself in Baltimore.

There are many options if they keep Miggy. If they trade Miggy for prospects, Flanagan and Duquette are done because they will never be a winner during their contract term.

Meanwhile Mora and Mora get older.

Gibby as DH/1B. Not good enough if you ask me, especially as a 1B.

Signing Carlos Lee? To borrow your phrase, what planet are you living on?

Maybe a trade you say? Who do we trade of any real value??

Terrero starting?

Lord, if the FO thinks like you, they should be fired as well.

WC, we are simply going to have to agree to disagree my good man.

[wildcard]

Meanwhile Mora and Mora get older.

Gibby as DH/1B. Not good enough if you ask me, especially as a 1B.

Signing Carlos Lee? To borrow your phrase, what planet are you living on?

Maybe a trade you say? Who do we trade of any real value??

Terrero starting?

Lord, if the FO thinks like you, they should be fired as well.

WC, we are simply going to have to agree to disagree my good man.

And Markakis gets better and better.

I agree that Gibbons is not good enough if we trade Miggy, but if you have a SS that hits like Miggy then Gibbons is a complementary piece.

Notice you didn't mention Wilson.

Lee? I think the O's can out bid everyone but the Mets. The Mets are probably going to spend a ton on either Zito or Schmidt. They are a winning team. Do they need to add two high dollar players? Will they?

There has to be a young righthanded hitting outfielder out there somewhere for Val and JJ Johnson.

You can roll your eyes at Terrero all you want but the guy, at present, is trying to take advantage of an opportunity. He has a strong arm and threw a runner out at the plate last night. He has hit since he has come up. Who knows, maybe he learned enough with the D'backs that he has figured it out. Look at his July numbers. Its a look start.

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=bal&baseballScope=MLA&teamPosCode=all&statType=1&timeSubFrame=2006&sitSplit=7&venueID=&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

[beardbr]

I really like Tejada as a player, and if I thought there was a good way to build around him, I'd say keep him. That said, I don't see an good way to build around him at this point. I have said previously, that I think, besides getting some good players for him, that getting rid of him would change the make up/chemistry of the team. The example I keep thinking of, is when Seattle got rid of Ken Griffey. They didn't add another superstar per se, but became a much better "team" in the years after. And started to win. For whatever reason, it just seems to me that Miggy just isn't the right player for the O's to become a winning team again. Give a bunch of good lesser name, hungry players that have a chip on their shoulder, and have something to prove.

[Tx Oriole]

I would be frustrated as hell if it took two more years before we some kind of improvement. To be two years before the team coud get into the playoffs would be too long to wait. I would hope that the team could be built around Tejada. I know you are not going to get much for R. Lopez and Conine and Javy if some team wanted him.

[utvolzac]

And Markakis gets better and better.

I agree that Gibbons is not good enough if we trade Miggy, but if you have a SS that hits like Miggy then Gibbons is a complementary piece.

Notice you didn't mention Wilson.

Lee? I think the O's can out bid everyone but the Mets. The Mets are probably going to spend a ton on either Zito or Schmidt. They are a winning team. Do they need to add two high dollar players? Will they?

There has to be a young righthanded hitting outfielder out there somewhere for Val and JJ Johnson.

You can roll your eyes at Terrero all you want but the guy, at present, is trying to take advantage of an opportunity. He has a strong arm and throw a runner out at the plate last night. He has hit since he has come up. Who knows, maybe he learned enough with the D'backs that he has figured it out. Look at his July numbers. Its a look start.

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=bal&baseballScope=MLA&teamPosCode=all&statType=1&timeSubFrame=2006&sitSplit=7&venueID=&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

I don't think this is even close to being true. Lee is going to be the premiere offensive free agent, along with Soriano. Because theres such a huge drop off after those two guys, they are both going to get way more than they are worth.

I'd be shocked if the O's were serious contenders for either of them. The Cubs have been rumored to have their eye on Lee. They can definitely out spend us if they chose to. Factor in the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, etc and the O's odds don't look too good.

Also, I don't see why we're automatically giving up on '07, '08 by trading Tejada. If we get Kendrick, Aybar & Kotchman for Miggy, all three of those guys are MLB ready and would be ready to contribute, most likely this year, definitely by the start of '07.

A move like that would fill 1B & LF, and replace Miggy at SS. You think our offense would be better with just Miggy, rather than those 3 guys. Not to mention the salary it frees up.

The way I see it, Penn, Cabrera, & Loewen are going to be fixtures in our rotation next year. The means the majority of our rotation is inconsistant/inexperienced. I don't think we're going to be contenders with that rotation for a year or two anyway. You figure Penn & Loewen will need some time to adjust to the major leagues and who knows where Cabrera will be by then.

We've proven we can lose with or w/o Miggy. The only real reason to keep him, is if you believe that Angelos will allow us to be players in free agency to build around Tejada. And by being players in free agency, that means drastically increasing the payroll, because to get top quality free agents, we're going to have to overspend big time. That's the only way we're going to get people to come to Baltimore, until we restore the credibility of the franchise. I know I'm not holding my breath on us being big players in free agency.

[66-70-83-??]

I think it's being pushed by an owner who was dissed by Tejada and is unloading him as a result. I'm surprised he's lasted in Baltimore this long.

I don't think so. If the KING ordered Miggy gone- he would have been dealt ASAP !

They are banking on young pitching getting better next year and putting the O's in contention in 2008.

Miggy is a key part of the offense.

One way to contention is to build around Miggy. That has been the plan for three years. And with Miggy, we have won fewer games each year.

For three years we have been "waiting" on our young pitchers to blossom. Looks like Bedard is finally doing that. Looks like the "sure thing" Cabrera has regressed badly. Is the Loewen that you see the one you had expected to see after all the hype ? Isn't entirely possible that Penn bombs ? And Loewen ? Then what do we do ? What will that do to our 2008 contention hopes ? We can't just sit back and bank on our young pitchers. We need to keep adding as many young arms as possible into the fray. Trading Miggy will give up another top young arm or two.

Another way to contention starts with trading Miggy and parlaying him into three very good prospects such as Aybar (ready to step in NOW, and be a defensive upgrade at SS) Saunders (another mlb ready starting pitcher to add to mix), Wood (big time power prospect). Hopefully we can also swing a deal for a guy like Shealy, too.

Also, perhaps there will be more energy and a better atmosphere in and around the team. Face it- Miggy is a malcontent. It will be fun to watch the young, hungry players.

Trading Miggy will expedite our road to contention, imo.

Unless, they go out and sign Lee, Schmidt, and Zito. Is that realistically going to happen ?

I would trade Miggy AND go after Zito in the F/A market. If successful we could be looking at these guys fighting it out for the five starter spots next spring:

Zito, Bedard, Benson, Cabrera, Saunders, Loewen, Penn, Olson with losers going to the bullpen.

Pitching wins championships !

[wildcard]

I don't think this is even close to being true. Lee is going to be the premiere offensive free agent, along with Soriano. Because theres such a huge drop off after those two guys, they are both going to get way more than they are worth.

I'd be shocked if the O's were serious contenders for either of them. The Cubs have been rumored to have their eye on Lee. They can definitely out spend us if they chose to. Factor in the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, etc and the O's odds don't look too good.

Also, I don't see why we're automatically giving up on '07, '08 by trading Tejada. If we get Kendrick, Aybar & Kotchman for Miggy, all three of those guys are MLB ready and would be ready to contribute, most likely this year, definitely by the start of '07.

A move like that would fill 1B & LF, and replace Miggy at SS. You think our offense would be better with just Miggy, rather than those 3 guys. Not to mention the salary it frees up.

The way I see it, Penn, Cabrera, & Loewen are going to be fixtures in our rotation next year. The means the majority of our rotation is inconsistant/inexperienced. I don't think we're going to be contenders with that rotation for a year or two anyway. You figure Penn & Loewen will need some time to adjust to the major leagues and who knows where Cabrera will be by then.

We've proven we can lose with or w/o Miggy. The only real reason to keep him, is if you believe that Angelos will allow us to be players in free agency to build around Tejada. And by being players in free agency, that means drastically increasing the payroll, because to get top quality free agents, we're going to have to overspend big time. That's the only way we're going to get people to come to Baltimore, until we restore the credibility of the franchise. I know I'm not holding my breath on us being big players in free agency.

I don't see the Cubs going past $13M/yr. That is what Derek Lee makes. There are a worst team then the O's. I think it will be competitive bidding but the O's have a good chance to get him if they want him.

I agree that the young starters will continue to develop next year. If the team adds to its hitting and maybe a bullpen guy they are over an .500 team in 2007. They contend in 2008.

I do not share your optimism that prospects will all add up to a better team then keeping Miggy in 2007 or 8. Miggy is a proven player. These guys are question marks.

I just don't think Flanagan and Duq have the option of wanting until 2009.

[66-70-83-??]

I don't see the Cubs going past $13M/yr. That is what Derek Lee makes. There are a worst team then the O's. I think it will be competitive bidding but the O's have a good chance to get him if they want him.

I agree that the young starters will continue to develop next year. If the team adds to its hitting and maybe a bullpen guy they are over an .500 team in 2007. They contend in 2008.

I do not share your optimism that prospects will all add up to a better team then keeping Miggy in 2007 or 8. Miggy is a proven player. These guys are question marks.

I just don't think Flanagan and Duq have the option of wanting until 2009.

We can do both: Trade Miggy AND sign Lee.

LF Lee

CF CPat

RF Markakis

3B Mora

SS Aybar

2B Roberts

1B TBD / or Gibbons or Morales (from LAA in Miggy Trade ? )

C Hernandez

DH Gibbons

Or we can sign Lee and keep Miggy.

Lee can be a fit no matter which way the FO goes with Miggy.