Red Sox/Padres Talking AGon Trade (UPDATE: Trade done)

[shorty122dude]

Who would that be in our organization?

[UMDTerrapins]

Who are, three men who have never been in my kitchen ("Cheers" reference).

This exact question was posed an answered in the main AGone thread.

[TonySoprano]

Who would that be in our organization?

As I said...

Boston gave up their #1(Kelly),3 (Rizzo), and 6 (Fuentes) prospects. Going by our minors board, the Orioles equivalent would be Machado, Hoes, and Klein. Would you have made that trade if you could get an extension signed with Gonzalez?

[AZOriole]

Who would that be in our organization?

Machado, Britton, Hoes?

[hendu]

Per the article from the OH...that would be Machado, Hoes and Klein. For the sake of what the Padres wanted (potential TOR starter) you would probably want to substitute Britton for Machado. However, the Sox system is better than ours, so that's not a good comparison.

[Hank Scorpio]

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2310179&postcount=59

[Hank Scorpio]

Realize that Kelly and Rizzo >> Machado and Hoes in that they likely have higher ceilings and are closer to ML ready.

[Cakes2Kakes]

I would have loved to have seen AGon in orange and black, but some of us have to be realistic here. Gonzalez stated last week that his team of preference was the Sox!

We could have sent the Padres our 10 best players, and they would have loved us for it, but Gonzo would NOT have signed an extension to play here. He would have become a free agent next winter just to see what "winning" clubs were willing to offer.

The Red Sox will extend him easily, (at Ryan Howard type money), because that is where he wants to be, and at enough money to make anyone happy. We could have matched the money, just like we could have matched the trade package, but we could not, (at this time), match the "happy!"

[crawjo]

Not a chance.

The question also assumes that the Orioles #3 prospect and #6 prospect are equivalent in value to the Sox #3 and #6 prospects. I don't think they are. I think San Diego would take the Boston deal over that hypothetical Orioles offer.

My view is that the Orioles don't have the pieces in place to be able to spare the kind of young talent they would have had to give up in order to get Gonzalez. Add to that the fact that Gonzalez would likely balk at signing a long-term extension with a last-place team when he knows he can wait a year and get a nice deal on the open market, and it is no surprise, and no reason to get so upset, that the Orioles didn't land Gonzalez.

And please, the fact that the Red Sox got Gonzalez is not a good argument for the Orioles to overpay to get Prince Fielder, whose future does not project well based on his body type. I understand and share some of the criticisms that people make of MacPhail and the Orioles front office, but the knee jerk reactions to every FA signing and major trade are both predictable and tiresome.

[ThisIsOurHouse]

Boston gave up their #1(Kelly),3 (Rizzo), and 6 (Fuentes) prospects. Going by our minors board, the Orioles equivalent would be Machado, Hoes, and Klein. Would you have made that trade if you could get an extension signed with Gonzalez?

To be honest put in the category of no. I do not think this team is ready to play with the big boys this year. Our young pitching is still getting better. Wieters and Jones still have improvement in front of them. And even with A-Gon we still have weaknesses in other places that will keep us from being a playoff team. I believe the best way to build a team is through the Rays method. Which is great player development and drafting. Lets keep our prospects especially Machado, let them develop. If you look at the history of our team, much of our best players were home grown, only when we were right on the cusp of competing would we go out and make a blockbuster move (Frank Robinson). When we started to try playing moneyball, we got nowhere and only ended up with the scrap the Sox/Yanks left behind.

Yes you can make the arguement that times have changed. But really those times really benefit a small minority of teams (Yankees, Mets, Sox). What we need to do is take that money and invest it in the draft and internationally. Because if we load up our farm system then we get talented players coming up to the majors and those we do not need we can trade away for proven players (like a Fielder).

Either way our organization needs to make a commitment to a method, either try and play moneyball and do it all out, or play mid market ball and try and build from the ground up. Because this in between stuff does not make playoff teams, instead you end up with 2nd-3rd tier players who are not going to bring you champioships.

[DrungoHazewood]

The question also assumes that the Orioles #3 prospect and #6 prospect are equivalent in value to the Sox #3 and #6 prospects. I don't think they are. I think San Diego would take the Boston deal over that hypothetical Orioles offer.

My view is that the Orioles don't have the pieces in place to be able to spare the kind of young talent they would have had to give up in order to get Gonzalez. Add to that the fact that Gonzalez would likely balk at signing a long-term extension with a last-place team when he knows he can wait a year and get a nice deal on the open market, and it is no surprise, and no reason to get so upset, that the Orioles didn't land Gonzalez.

And please, the fact that the Red Sox got Gonzalez is not a good argument for the Orioles to overpay to get Prince Fielder, whose future does not project well based on his body type. I understand and share some of the criticisms that people make of MacPhail and the Orioles front office, but the knee jerk reactions to every FA signing and major trade are both predictable and tiresome.

The Red Sox can reasonably say that they've lost very little 2011 production in acquiring Gonzalez, and gained maybe 5 wins, depending on how they rearrange their lineup. The O's would have had to give up at least the potential for as many wins in 2011 as Gonzalez would bring.

And yes, the negotiating window would have been worth almost nothing to the O's, as it's highly unlikely Gonzalez signs an extension with a non-contender.

[SrMeowMeow]

This trade is a good thing. The Red Sox got semi-desperate and paid a high price for one year of Gonzalez and the privilege of extending him for a lot of money. A comparable O's package is probably Machado/Britton/Hoes/PTBNL, and no way in hell would I make that deal. (And that might not even top the Sox offer)

The Red Sox have a good farm system, but it's as finite as everyone else's. And it just took a serious hit.

[NewMarketSean]

This is why the offseason sucks -- because the O's rarely do anything of substance and the teams in our division seem to do it several times every year. That doesn't mean the 2011 doesn't have its positives though. If our rotation shapes up nicely, we could surprise a lot of people. But MacPhail needs to do more to improve this team. His inaction is infuriating.

[Crazysilver03]

I personally think we should have & easily couldhavebeaten that deal.

If you think so, how about you enlighten us as to how?

[ChaosLex]

If you think so, how about you enlighten us as to how?

Yeah, I'd like to be "enlightened" by this as well.