O's have exceeded 2011 budget

[Frobby]

My best guess is that MASN revenues make up for almost 40% of the losses from attendance dropping.

Just curious, how do you come to that number?

[DrungoHazewood]

Just curious, how do you come to that number?

Back of the napkin, maybe I'm way off. But didn't someone say the MASN revenues were just short of $30M annually? The O's have lost ~2M in attendance from their peak in the late 90s. If you assume that's a loss of $50 a ticket (including stuff like parking and concessions), you're looking at $100M in missing revenues. Before I looked it up my original swag assumed 1.7M in lost attendance, $85M in revenues, so 30/85 is 35%.

Like I said, back of the napkin. If you want to nitpick, I probably could have said 20-50% or something.

[Frobby]

Back of the napkin, maybe I'm way off. But didn't someone say the MASN revenues were just short of $30M annually? The O's have lost ~2M in attendance from their peak in the late 90s. If you assume that's a loss of $50 a ticket (including stuff like parking and concessions), you're looking at $100M in missing revenues. Before I looked it up my original swag assumed 1.7M in lost attendance, $85M in revenues, so 30/85 is 35%.

Like I said, back of the napkin. If you want to nitpick, I probably could have said 20-50% or something.

I think MASN pays the Orioles rights fees of about $27 mm or so. But that doesn't tell you much, because (1) even before MASN, the O's were being paid about $18 mm for their TV rights, and (2) the $27 mm rights fee doesn't include the Orioles share of MASN's profits, which are unknown.

A few years ago, I read that revenue to the Orioles from attendance, including parking and concessions, etc., was roughly $40 per fan. $50 may be a decent guess now, or it still may be a little on the high side.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think MASN pays the Orioles rights fees of about $27 mm or so. But that doesn't tell you much, because (1) even before MASN, the O's were being paid about $18 mm for their TV rights, and (2) the $27 mm rights fee doesn't include the Orioles share of MASN's profits, which are unknown.

A few years ago, I read that revenue to the Orioles from attendance, including parking and concessions, etc., was roughly $40 per fan. $50 may be a decent guess now, or it still may be a little on the high side.

Good information, and all valid points.

I think we can still at least heavily lean in the direction of assuming the O's having less revenues today than 10 years ago. Well, at least local revenues.

[TakebackOPACY]

Good information, and all valid points.

I think we can still at least heavily lean in the direction of assuming the O's having less revenues today than 10 years ago. Well, at least local revenues.

Yup, MLBAM (Major League Baseball Advanced Media) is hugely successful! It's so successful, in fact, that MLB has passed the NFL as the highest revenue generating pro sports league in the U.S.. Who knows how much revenue goes back to the teams vs. getting reinvested into MLBAM.

[Dagger420]

You just answered your own question. If the Orioles see a jump in attendance and TV revenue this season, then the budget can go up. That's how these things work.

Around the time the offseason started, I made a thread asking people to build their team using 85 million. I felt that was the high end of where the payroll would be this year and that looks to be accurate.

If you sell more tickets and do some more things on the TV/radio side, then the revenues being brought in go up and hopefully that means the team will spend more money.

I also think that 10 or 20 million not spent this season, means an extra 10 or 20 million to spend in future seasons, plus possibly more if the money is sitting somewhere earning interest (even though rates are putrid). You save 20 million that you could have spent for five years and thats $100 million you can use toward really making a run. I'm just hoping and praying that this is what they are doing because by no means should 70-80 be our actual budget with how much this team has spent in the past and our estimated revenue stream.

My problem with people saying that if the attendance increases we should spend more is that everyone and their mother knows darn well that this market has a huge potential for producing attendance and profit. Look at the Ravens, they have no problem selling out every game and you see people wearing purple everywhere during the season. So you know that Peter and the O's know that they need to make an investment for those numbers to go up. Its not like there's a shortage of baseball fans, people are just tired of seeing a $60 million payroll team competing against the big boys. Nobody likes losing and before their numbers improve they are going to have to spend. Its like looking at your bank statement and being upset that you're not earning as much interest on $500 as you were on $2000. You have to spend money to make money in any business. Everyone in Baltimore knows they are getting ripped off every time they spend money on a ticket and you can't expect people to come out in droves. Peter's got the money, he's going to have to spend it though if he wants to improve the revenue in.

I just hope AM is trying to save money these past few years in order to really splurge when winning is closer. If they are just waiting on more fans to come out to the games, I think they will be waiting a long time.

[Bradysburns]

I may have said or suggested that at some point. But now I believe that the O's, and most MLB teams, base this year's budget mainly on last year's revenues. Few teams are willing to spend beyond that on the hope that revenues will eventually follow.

Miss your window and not only do the shareholders get angry, but you've got a big, crippling financial hole to dig out of.

When did baseball become such a small-margin business? What strikes me as BS about all this rational-sounding argumentation is this. It's all presented as if the Orioles were operating in a vacuum.

Bottom line is: We can fairly compare the Orioles operation to other MLB teams as a benchmark for where we should be, where we were, where we're going, etc. Consider these facts:

- Last year, we were outspent by the Kansas City Royals.

- Last year, the Twins payroll exceeded $100 million

- Last year, a full 1/3 of all MLB team salaries exceeded $100 million

- Just to be in the top half of payrolls last year, you had to spend more than $90 million.

This year, we add some cast-offs through trades... we add a solid middle-reliever in Gregg... and a bargain, one-year stop-gap first baseman... and we're suddenly "over budget?"

What is the budget, and what is it based on? Does anyone really know?

It just doesn't pass the sniff test. Or at least it begs a whole bunch of questions about how this organization is being run, from a financial perspective.

[Lateralus]

I also think that 10 or 20 million not spent this season, means an extra 10 or 20 million to spend in future seasons, plus possibly more if the money is sitting somewhere earning interest (even though rates are putrid). You save 20 million that you could have spent for five years and thats $100 million you can use toward really making a run. I'm just hoping and praying that this is what they are doing because by no means should 70-80 be our actual budget with how much this team has spent in the past and our estimated revenue stream.

Shoot, if that's the case the O's should have a Scrooge McDuck-like vault full of unused funds from the past decade.

[JTrea81]

Shoot, if that's the case the O's should have a Scrooge McDuck-like vault full of unused funds from the past decade.

You haven't heard of Angelos' money bin?

[TonySoprano]

I think MASN pays the Orioles rights fees of about $27 mm or so. But that doesn't tell you much, because (1) even before MASN, the O's were being paid about $18 mm for their TV rights, and (2) the $27 mm rights fee doesn't include the Orioles share of MASN's profits, which are unknown.

A few years ago, I read that revenue to the Orioles from attendance, including parking and concessions, etc., was roughly $40 per fan. $50 may be a decent guess now, or it still may be a little on the high side.

We kicked the MASN money topic around a couple of weeks ago. It could be that Pete Angelos, and not the Orioles, is the owner (and sole profiteer of) MASN. (see my previous post)

[weams]

I was just watching PBS. Ireland is bankrupt. They spent more than they made.

Seriously, We all know that the franchise has been run poorly. I think that we are closing in on a turnaround.

Angelos will never spend his personal fortune on us no matter how much we might beg.

[Lateralus]

You haven't heard of Angelos' money bin?

So, in this case who plays the roles of Magica De Spell and The Beagle Boys?

[weams]

We kicked the MASN money topic around a couple of weeks ago. It could be that Pete Angelos, and not the Orioles, is the owner (and sole profiteer of) MASN. (see my previous post)

You are correct. The Orioles as a corporation do not own MASN, they get paid a revenue stream for licensing at a decreasing percentage over the years. The Nats get paid at an increasing rate. This was MLB's deal with Peter Angelos as a compensation for the infringement that the Nationals would impose on Peter's investment in the Orioles.

[JTrea81]

We kicked the MASN money topic around a couple of weeks ago. It could be that Pete Angelos, and not the Orioles, is the owner (and sole profiteer of) MASN. (see my previous post)

Correct, it is Peter Angelos' option to invest those profits into the Orioles or not. He said he would, but I'm not sure that he's been asked to.

[Sports Guy]

Correct, it is Peter Angelos' option to invest those profits into the Orioles or not. He said he would, but I'm not sure that he's been asked to.

LOL :rofl::rofl::rofl::laughlol::laughlol::laughlol: