Are there people on OH you feel could do a better job than AM or other members of the O's brass?

[Bradysburns]

Ok, so you think being a lawyer qualifies you to be a GM. What other qualifictions do you think he needs? A lot of people have a good idea of what good plan might be, but who here has the qualifications to impliment their plan?

This team has had a lawyer making decisions at the top for entirely too long - good point!

[El Gordo]

It happens every day. CEO's routinely move from one industry to another where they have no prior experience and succeed.

And I didn't say anything about Beane becoming an expert in player evaluation in three years. I said he learned the basics of player evaluation in three years and that all he needed to succeed were to understand the basics. Read moneyball. He repeatedly states that his theory of building a baseball team was based on economics and statistical analysis, not scouting as it had been done for decades. Moneyball is basic economic theory, nothing more. Beane didn't become an expert in statistical analysis, he hired one. Beane didn't become an expert in economics, he hired one.

I am not saying that there are no people here who could work their way through the system in ten years or less and become GM. But that would be acquiring the very hands on practical baseball experience necessary to be a an effective GM. Certainly Beane did that. There are pently of people who have read the various books and have sophisticated theoretical ideas about the game, but they have no practical working knowledge of PROFESSIONAL baseball and that's not something one acquires in a few months of on the job training.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I didn't say being a player makes you a good evaluator. I said it adds to your experience..

I think Beane's point was he had to unlearn a lot of what he learned as an evaluator and put aside his bias. That's what prompted him to develop a new methodology for evaluating players. It wasn't just about money. It was money and talent. MoneyBall readers please feel free to chime in.

Two people with the same inherent knack for evaluation, if one has no experience in the game and the other played pro ball, the ballplayer is going to be ahead of the outsider

Perhaps, but you're completely putting aside the statistical tools available for player evaluation. When and how much those skills become relevant and interrelate is another matter, but they're still applicable at many levels.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I am not saying that there are no people here who could work their way through the system in ten years or less and become GM. But that would be acquiring the very hands on practical baseball experience necessary to be a an effective GM. Certainly Beane did that. There are pently of people who have read the various books and have sophisticated theoretical ideas about the game, but they have no practical working knowledge of PROFESSIONAL baseball and that's not something one acquires in a few months of on the job training.

If you read his previous posts. He states that CEO's routinely go to different industries having no practical knowledge of that Industry. He's absoloutely right.

[Stotle]

I think Beane's point was he had to unlearn a lot of what he learned as an evaluator and put aside his bias. That's what prompted him to develop a new methodology for evaluating players. It wasn't just about money. It was money and talent. MoneyBall readers please feel free to chime in.

Perhaps, but you're completely putting aside the statistical tools available for player evaluation. When and how much those skills become relevant and interrelate is another matter, but they're still applicable at many levels.

I am not putting aside the statistical tools -- it's just that we are discussing scouting specifically. Someone with no experience whatsoever in baseball takes over. How is he going to assess the organization? When he meets with the current persons in charge of amateur scouting, pro scouting, pro instruction, international scouting, etc. how is he going to evaluate 1) the job they've done, and 2) their plans for the future? When you get daily reports from your pro scouts, are you comfortable working with those reports and understanding what they are saying? Are you comfortable looking at a snap shot of your minor league system and getting a feelign for where your strengths and weaknesses are? How do you distinguish between two AA recommends as trade targets for a position of need?

I guess the answer to all of this is "rely on the experts you have around you." Great, so long as they are good at what they do. And if they aren't, would you really have any way of knowing? Is the person with no industry experience going to be able to differentiate between bad scouting and bad luck when appraising his staff? Let's say you don't like the job he does, how are you hiring his replacement? When you interview all of these candidates, are you going to be a good judge of which of their plans for your organization makes the most sense? Will you have a sense for the costs associated with implementing the various courses of actions they'd like to see your org partake in?

[Stotle]

If you read his previous posts. He states that CEO's routinely go to different industries having no practical knowledge of that Industry. He's absoloutely right.

I think someone could be the CEO of a baseball team with no formal baseball training. GM, not so much.

[El Gordo]

I think someone could be the CEO of a baseball team with no formal baseball training. GM, not so much.

It would be great, and informative(I'm serious) if you would distinguish between the two positions.

I think a lot of folks think theyu are the same.

[Sports Guy]

It would be great, and informative(I'm serious) if you would distinguish between the two positions.

I think a lot of folks think theyu are the same.

I remember when this question was asked before, we had people who thought a GM even had his hands in marketing. That's just wrong.

The GM of a MINOR LEAGUE team has to do everything BUT player stuff but that's not the case in the majors.

[SrMeowMeow]

I disagree. I have no doubt that there are people on this board who, if they chose to pursue a career path towards baseball GM, could (not would, but could) get a job as a GM. I'm sure there are dozens of Executive level professionals who posts on OH who could get a job in a MLB front office and over time work their ways up in the ranks with the possibility of eventually reaching GM.

I used to work for a division of a Fortune 500 company where the President of my division had started in the mail room only 10 years prior to being chosen to head the division. He had absolutely no advantages - no money, no family influence, no friends at the company prior to his hire, nothing - but he worked through the system on merit and hard work alone to eventually gain a job he had no formal training for - and he built the division into a multi-hundred million dollar business unit.

Theo Epstein started in the PR department of the Padres and we know how that story ended. Sure Epstein had some famous family members, but his father is a novelist. It's not like he had some kind of golden pathway to becoming a MLB GM.

These kinds of success stories are common enough for us to know that anyone can aspire to almost any job and have a realistic chance to succeed given enough hard work and determination.

I mean, get a job as a GM right now. Which seems to be what El Gordo is saying - meaning, nobody here has the connections and qualifications to win a GM job if it opened up. To which I say, no #@$!.

[Stotle]

It would be great, and informative(I'm serious) if you would distinguish between the two positions.

I think a lot of folks think theyu are the same.

CEO runs the business; GM runs the personnel. There can be overlap, but the GM is essentially incharge of collecting players and putting together the baseball side of things, top to bottom. That means the GM runs the aspects of the organization directly and tangentially involved in player acquisition/development. CEO is in charge of running the business.

Angelos is the CEO for the Orioles. MacPhail is the GM. So, there you have it Gordo! A lawyer as CEO!

[El Gordo]

I mean, get a job as a GM right now. Which seems to be what El Gordo is saying - meaning, nobody here has the connections and qualifications to win a GM job if it opened up. To which I say, no #@$!.

I am saying more than that. I, like Stotle, would be surprised to find any Andrew Freidmans posting here. Barring that, I think it takes more than a few months and some trusted advisors to acquire the necessary hands on basball experience and knowledge, to do the job effectively.

[Stotle]

I am saying more than that. I, like Stotle, would be surprised to find any Andrew Freidmans posting here. Barring that, I think it takes more than a few months and some trusted advisors to acquire the necessary hands on basball experience and knowledge, to do the job effectively.

Friedman also served as Director of Baseball Development for a few years before being promoted to GM -- essentially learning the Tampa organization and how the industry works before coming up with, and implementing, a plan. My understanding is the position was created for him.

[bluedog]

I've read moneyball. Friedman is a better example than beane, as far as your argument is concerned. Beane played the game at the professional level. There was a lot more than 3yr worth of training for him on the evaluative side.

Id concede Friedman is a case for someone completely outside coming in and succeeding quickly. I HIGHLY doubt the next Friedman is posting at the hangout, but hey I could be wrong...

I don't understand how playing baseball at a professional level as a 20 to 26 year old somehow qualifies a person to become a scout. A guy who's working on his hitting, fielding and conditioning each day isn't focused on evaluating other player's talent - he's focused on maximizing his own talent. There are literally thousands of professional players who have long playing careers who wouldn't know the first thing about being a professional talent scout.

What allowed Beane to move into a job as an advanced scout was his intelligence and aptitude (he was offered a full ride at Stanford) not his 6 years experience as a ballplayer. Clearly having played the game as a pro didn't hurt, but we wouldn't hand Manny Ramirez a job as a professional scout and he's played the game for two decades professionally. So just playing pro sports doesn't give you the tools to be a scout.

And furthermore, I can make a fairly strong argument that 6 years of being a fan who watches every inning of every game a team player and analyses every aspect of every player's statistical performance is a far better form of "training" to become a scout than sitting on the bench eating sunflower seeds and getting an occasional spot start in the outfield is. The fan may not have the behind the scenes access the player does, but I really doubt that even Beane spent all his spare time analyzing players and trade scenarios when he was a player.

[SrMeowMeow]

I am saying more than that. I, like Stotle, would be surprised to find any Andrew Freidmans posting here. Barring that, I think it takes more than a few months and some trusted advisors to acquire the necessary hands on basball experience and knowledge, to do the job effectively.

Well, that's just because you're a bitter old curmudgeon.

[bluedog]

I mean, get a job as a GM right now. Which seems to be what El Gordo is saying - meaning, nobody here has the connections and qualifications to win a GM job if it opened up. To which I say, no #@$!.

Sure if you want to qualify it by saying - right now this minute, I'll agree. But that's not what the post said. The way it was worded suggested that no one that regularly posts on OH could ever get a job as a GM, which I believe is simply false.