Bowden: Duquette deal done

[SteveO]

Plus, LaCava was going to be allowed to bring 7 guys with him. The report from Gammons (as relayed by TxOriole) is B.S. There isn't a GM candidate in the world who would take the job under those conditions ("no say over hiring personnel directors, minor league staff, player development staff, etc."), including a guy who has been out of the game for 9 years. Not even Angelos would be stupid enough to impose restrictions that severe. I'm sure, based on credible reports, that he is protecting a couple of people, but there is no way he has gone anywhere near this far.

Really????? Your sure???? Seems to me the evidence kinda is stacked up on the side that says that Angelos did EXACTLY what Gammons said. Why do you think they hired a GM who has been out the game for 10yrs....could it have to do with the fact that he will bring in essentially nobody of significance who can supplant Peter Angelos's cronies????? Seriously your gonna question the credibility of that report when we essentially bypassed numerous people who CURRENTLY work in baseball to hire a guy who has not been in the game for 10yrs.....get a grip

This whole thing is really just a symptom of the bigger disease. We have an owner who wants his people in key positions so that they can all tell him just whats going on. Essentially this is a form of paranoia. More importantly it creates a culture of dysfunction, were peoples sole reason for being in the organization is to be essentially tattle tales and tear each other down.

[Can_of_corn]

Really????? Your sure???? Seems to me the evidence kinda is stacked up on the side that says that Angelos did EXACTLY what Gammons said. Why do you think they hired a GM who has been out the game for 10yrs....could it have to do with the fact that he will bring in essentially nobody of significance who can supplant Peter Angelos's cronies????? Seriously your gonna question the credibility of that report when we essentially bypassed numerous people who CURRENTLY work in baseball to hire a guy who has not been in the game for 10yrs.....get a grip

This whole thing is really just a symptom of the bigger disease. We have an owner who wants his people in key positions so that they can all tell him just whats going on. Essentially this is a form of paranoia. More importantly it creates a culture of dysfunction, were peoples sole reason for being in the organization is to be essentially tattle tales and tear each other down.

Who "walked out"? Give me a name. If that part of the story is hyperbole what makes you think the rest of it isn't? My guess is Gammons is exaggerating the fact that PA has "untouchables" in the front office.

[El Gordo]

Really????? Your sure???? Seems to me the evidence kinda is stacked up on the side that says that Angelos did EXACTLY what Gammons said. Why do you think they hired a GM who has been out the game for 10yrs....could it have to do with the fact that he will bring in essentially nobody of significance who can supplant Peter Angelos's cronies????? Seriously your gonna question the credibility of that report when we essentially bypassed numerous people who CURRENTLY work in baseball to hire a guy who has not been in the game for 10yrs.....get a grip

This whole thing is really just a symptom of the bigger disease. We have an owner who wants his people in key positions so that they can all tell him just whats going on. Essentially this is a form of paranoia. More importantly it creates a culture of dysfunction, were peoples sole reason for being in the organization is to be essentially tattle tales and tear each other down.

The O's didn't bypass anybody, they were bypassed. Just listened to the replay of the Gammons interview, and he was clearly using hyperbole when characterizing the interview, and never said anything about the guy walking out.

[SteveO]

The O's didn't bypass anybody, they were bypassed. Just listened to the replay of the Gammons interview, and he was clearly using hyperbole when characterizing the interview, and never said anything about the guy walking out.

I get that it was hyperbole it does not change the meat and potatoes of the story which is that Peter's insistence that key people he wanted to stay would have to stay caused most of the credible candidates for this job to turn away.

As the fan of a team that has had 14 straight losing seasons I had hoped some lessons had been learned through that. I had hoped they would bring in someone who could change the culture of the organization and the directions. The way this went down its pretty obvious to anyone without blinders what happened. Peter insisted that certain people stay, he also nudered the position to the point were it was at best a lateral move for most the decent candidates. The end result was the hire of a guy who has not worked in baseball for 10yrs. A guy with no other options. A guy EASILY controlled.

Whats more likely here folks, the Orioles a team with 14 losing season have some great insight as to what Dan Duquettes capabilities are OR that the rest of baseball who pretty much chucked the guy to the curb has it right???? I am betting on the field but lets hope thats wrong.

[SteveO]

The O's didn't bypass anybody, they were bypassed. Just listened to the replay of the Gammons interview, and he was clearly using hyperbole when characterizing the interview, and never said anything about the guy walking out.

So essentially you are left with one of two options then..... not saying which is right

A. Nobody else CURRENTLY working in baseball wanted anything to do with the Orioles and this position. If this is the case then this organization is in real real big trouble.

B. The Orioles may have thought that they would be able to get someone to take the job and do it "their way" (which has worked wonders for the last 14yrs). When they were turned down by LaCava they essentially offfered the job to anyone they thought would not turn it down but would be willing to do it the way they wanted. Enter Duquette a guy who has not be able to find baseball employment for 10yrs.

Bottom line is the fact that Dan Duquette was hired as our GM is an embarrassment. It speaks volumes about the perception of this franchise within the baseball community.

The one hope I hold out in all this is that Duquette will get enough of a budget increase to go out and get some talent and that he has the desire to prove that those who cast him off 10yrs ago were wrong and will work his ass off to prove them wrong. Duquette obviously did some good stuff with Expos and Red Sox along with the bad, lets hope we see that side of him.

[JTrea81]

It its believed that LaCava got a raise to stay with the Blue Jays according to Heyman

I said I thought he might have been playing the Orioles job into a better situation with the Jays...

[Sports Guy]

It its believed that LaCava got a raise to stay with the Blue Jays according to Heyman

I said I thought he might have been playing the Orioles job into a better situation with the Jays...

Except that probably didn't happen. PA clearly screwed things up.

Toronto did come through for him though, so good for him.

[Cheese Oriole]

To our plugged in members. Is there any rumors to whom Duke is going to bring into the organization- how many and what job titles?

[JTrea81]

Except that probably didn't happen. PA clearly screwed things up.

Toronto did come through for him though, so good for him.

No PA did not clearly screw things up. There is no evidence that Peter Angelos is why LaCava turned down the Orioles job, rather only the spin the media and others such as yourself are putting on it with the limited facts you have.

Perhaps LaCava just loves the Jays.

And why didn't he interview for the Angels job if he wanted to be a GM so badly?

Dipoto did, but why not LaCava?

It's pretty good leverage to threaten to leave your job for a division rival plus take key Jays people with you to said rival.

LaCava got the Jays good IMO at the Orioles' expense...

[bandy75]

To our plugged in members. Is there any rumors to whom Duke is going to bring into the organization- how many and what job titles?

I've heard this guy for scouting director.

[scOtt]

Considering Angelos, I'm really happy to have Duquette. What I mean by considering Angelos includes these assumptions:

1) PA would never respect a GM under 40 and would look over / second guess / interfere with one more, whereas PA might be able to accept that someone >50 is an actual fully formed and functioning adult. I think Duquette (or LaCava, for that matter) gets more free rein than some of the younger guys that have been tossed around.

2) PA will have his hands in things, he will protect certain cronies in this organization and not allow any GM to simply do what he wants to do. These are characteristics which have been (Wren), should be, and are (LaCava) unacceptable to a first-time GM. A first-time GM wants to make his mark and establish himself - especially a first-time GM who has worked in organizations which do not operate under these kinds of constraints. Duke isn't bridled by that sort of thing. He's already established a legacy. Further, he's worked in an organization with incredible constraints (the Expos had no budget and Duke still produced a good MiL system, a great international pipeline, and a very good organization all around). His cousin was the co-GM of the Orioles for heaven sakes. You think Dan doesn't know in great detail the kind of constraints and meddling he's going to be subjected to?

3) PA might give some ground and it might be in the areas of international scouting and internal development. I think Buck really got these points through to PA. Certainly the list of candidates that the initially set up were strong in these areas. If PA is willing to change his ways there, Duquette really seems like a great guy for that. The Expos were at the top of the class in terms of international scouting and player development when Duke was there as Farm Director and GM. He clearly knows how to get that done.

4) PA still won't spend the wad on a single player that it will take to bring an impact FA here. Contracts have simply gone beyond PA's ability to comprehend. We will have to make up much more ground through trading than we have been doing. This is one area where Duke has a huge advantage over the other candidates on our initial list did. Duke has a record of great trades, and he's aggressive. He should be able to get much more done here than the methodical conservative AM did.

By the way, was Duquette not hired for positions that he interviewed for since 2002 (Angels excluded), or did he just not interview? I thought he was only interested in a move up to President of some team and he simply didn't interview for any such positions. The fact that he did interview for GM in CA just says to me that he changed his mind and was willing to reenter at a lateral position to the one he left at.

Don't get me wrong. I was crushed when LaCava turned us down, and I was embarrassed for the fiasco that is the PA-run process of finding a new GM. (But) I'm glad for LaCava that he didn't take it. Given what we assume the constraints were, there's no way he could've done what he wanted to and been happy here.

Given the anchor that is PA, I am really happy to have Dan Duquette battling for us.

The bolded is a VERY good point. And DD was still willing to take the job. I don't know what that says overall more than he knows what he's getting himself into....

EDIT: And my take is this... DD and Buck are both strong personalities. If they are both on the same page, can work together, maybe they can gang up on PA a little and get some meaningful stuff done. Of course ganging up on PA is like all the folks in the Jack Links' commercials ganging up on Sasquatch...

[Sports Guy]

No PA did not clearly screw things up. There is no evidence that Peter Angelos is why LaCava turned down the Orioles job, rather only the spin the media and others such as yourself are putting on it with the limited facts you have.

Perhaps LaCava just loves the Jays.

And why didn't he interview for the Angels job if he wanted to be a GM so badly?

Dipoto did, but why not LaCava?

It's pretty good leverage to threaten to leave your job for a division rival plus take key Jays people with you to said rival.

LaCava got the Jays good IMO at the Orioles' expense...

The ENTIRE media, including a guy who is friends and very close to these guys, is saying it was on PA.

You don't come to an interview the second time, say that you want and will take the job and then, all of a sudden, change your mind.

Its just not likely.

Every piece of evidence points to PA screwing things up.

[scOtt]

So essentially you are left with one of two options then..... not saying which is right

A. Nobody else CURRENTLY working in baseball wanted anything to do with the Orioles and this position. If this is the case then this organization is in real real big trouble.

B. The Orioles may have thought that they would be able to get someone to take the job and do it "their way" (which has worked wonders for the last 14yrs). When they were turned down by LaCava they essentially offfered the job to anyone they thought would not turn it down but would be willing to do it the way they wanted. Enter Duquette a guy who has not be able to find baseball employment for 10yrs.

Bottom line is the fact that Dan Duquette was hired as our GM is an embarrassment. It speaks volumes about the perception of this franchise within the baseball community.

The one hope I hold out in all this is that Duquette will get enough of a budget increase to go out and get some talent and that he has the desire to prove that those who cast him off 10yrs ago were wrong and will work his ass off to prove them wrong. Duquette obviously did some good stuff with Expos and Red Sox along with the bad, lets hope we see that side of him.

The next JTrea is born....

[scOtt]

No PA did not clearly screw things up. There is no evidence that Peter Angelos is why LaCava turned down the Orioles job, rather only the spin the media and others such as yourself are putting on it with the limited facts you have.

Perhaps LaCava just loves the Jays.

And why didn't he interview for the Angels job if he wanted to be a GM so badly?

Dipoto did, but why not LaCava?

It's pretty good leverage to threaten to leave your job for a division rival plus take key Jays people with you to said rival.

LaCava got the Jays good IMO at the Orioles' expense...

You are just TOO much, Mr. Grimm.

[scOtt]

And just for the record, my take on LaCava...

He knows his place in baseball. He knows (with his long and impressive history) that he is a hot commodity. Almost guaranteed to get a GM position of his own in the next year or two. He listened to the Orioles, didn't like all the constraints he would be under, and (graciously) pulled his name out of the running. Wait for a better oppOrtunity later this year or next. His chance WILL come.